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Old 10-20-2014, 02:52 PM
 
26,191 posts, read 21,591,383 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big-Bucks View Post
ALL annuities are one form of crap or another. It's not just variable annuities. Index annuities are crap. Immediate and fixed annuities are crap too.

From 2000 until 2013 25% of the S&P index & 75% of the total bond market, when compounded and rebalanced annually earned 7%. Don't expect Mr. Index Annuity salesman to mention that.

And if you were drawing money out (rather than compounding) then you could take 6% out without ANY loss to your principal. Don't expect Mr. Immediate Annuity salesman to mention that.

Facts talk, BS walk.


Amen to that!


Do you have return details for the 25/75 mix? Do you have the performance data for the decade prior to that?
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Old 10-20-2014, 04:46 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
2,914 posts, read 2,689,002 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowexpectations View Post
Do you have return details for the 25/75 mix? Do you have the performance data for the decade prior to that?
Yes. This is simple total return by year.
Historical returns
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Old 10-20-2014, 05:35 PM
 
26,191 posts, read 21,591,383 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big-Bucks View Post
Yes. This is simple total return by year.
Historical returns
When I added up the return 2000-2013 it only figures to a rate under 6% a year. You said the total bond market for that 75% but what does the 75% actually consist of on that spreadsheet?
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Old 10-20-2014, 06:54 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowexpectations View Post
When I added up the return 2000-2013 it only figures to a rate under 6% a year. You said the total bond market for that 75% but what does the 75% actually consist of on that spreadsheet?
Did you compound and rebalance? The total bond market (ticker symbol AGG).
Stocks and Bonds, Calendar Year Performance 1980-2013
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Old 10-20-2014, 07:21 PM
 
26,191 posts, read 21,591,383 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big-Bucks View Post
Did you compound and rebalance? The total bond market (ticker symbol AGG).
Stocks and Bonds, Calendar Year Performance 1980-2013


I'm not sure why your numbers aren't matching up. The ishares site post total returns for the last few years of AGG and none of them are even close to your figures. Makes me question the rest of your data


iShares Core U.S. Aggregate Bond ETF | AGG


2009 5.13%
2010 6.28%
2011 7.58%
2012 4.04%
2013 -2.15%
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Old 10-21-2014, 04:18 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
2,914 posts, read 2,689,002 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowexpectations View Post
I'm not sure why your numbers aren't matching up. The ishares site post total returns for the last few years of AGG and none of them are even close to your figures. Makes me question the rest of your data


iShares Core U.S. Aggregate Bond ETF | AGG


2009 5.13%
2010 6.28%
2011 7.58%
2012 4.04%
2013 -2.15%
Maybe it's based on 10 year treasuries then. Also be sure to look at total return -- not price return.
Historical Returns

2000 - 16.66%
2001 - 5.57%
2002 - 15.12%
etc

Also when looking at 1 year performances don't forget to think about how money compounds if you are not taking out of it, although that's another discussion.
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Old 10-21-2014, 06:07 AM
 
26,191 posts, read 21,591,383 times
Reputation: 22772
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big-Bucks View Post
Maybe it's based on 10 year treasuries then. Also be sure to look at total return -- not price return.
Historical Returns

2000 - 16.66%
2001 - 5.57%
2002 - 15.12%
etc

Also when looking at 1 year performances don't forget to think about how money compounds if you are not taking out of it, although that's another discussion.


You don't actually know what comprises the performance data you are quoting? If you can't tell me what bonds are creating said performance maybe you shouldn't be touting it.


Also I know what total returns is, I quoted it and pasted a link to I shares the agg creator listing their total return. At the end of the day you are copying/pasting data you don't actually know what it is or how it's constructed.
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Old 10-21-2014, 02:14 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
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I crunched some of the numbers using 10 year treasuries. That's what it is. 6 or half a dozen. It's based on 10-year treasuries.
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Old 10-21-2014, 02:50 PM
 
26,191 posts, read 21,591,383 times
Reputation: 22772
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big-Bucks View Post
I crunched some of the numbers using 10 year treasuries. That's what it is. 6 or half a dozen. It's based on 10-year treasuries.


So what was to investment you were buying in 2000 and then either buying/selling when you rebalanced in order to get said performance ?
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Old 10-21-2014, 04:36 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
2,914 posts, read 2,689,002 times
Reputation: 2450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowexpectations View Post
So what was to investment you were buying in 2000 and then either buying/selling when you rebalanced in order to get said performance ?
AFAI can tell that chart is annual return of....
75% 10-Year Treasuries
25% S&P 500 index
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