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I think its a few remarkable people who bust out of a trap like this. The average person can't do it. I applaud the few who do, but I think suggesting its a common or regular occurrence, or worse, suggesting those who don't are "just lazy" perpetuates a dishonest mythology about living in America.[/quote]
I disagree. The average person CAN do it. However, it can be difficult. I had no support from my parents. In high school I worked at a grocery store, mowed yards and washed cars. For the first two years, I went to a Jr. College. During Jr. College, I continued to work the grocery store job and took on odd jobs during the summers. During my last two years, I went to an in-state college (working in the evenings) and cut costs by living in much cheaper off campus housing. Yes, it was hard and at times, I was miserable, but I don't think I did anything unique and it is a pathway that I think the average person could do.
I submit its a rare person who could work the equivalent of eighty hours a week for a lengthy period of time. That essentially means that one has eight hours a day to eat, sleep, groom one's self, get haircuts, do shopping, go to the doctor and engage in a dozen activities most of us take for granted.
I can't think of anyone I've known who has done this.
I worked 70-80 hours a week for about 6 years (small biz + job w/benefits). Start at 8:30 am and done between 11 pm - 2 am. Grocery shopping at night at the nice 24/7 Walmart, good time to shop because the store was empty except for the other 2nd shift workers. It's an easy way to save money because you have no time or energy to shop for other things or go places.
I'm not afraid of hard work or working lots of hours, I'm actually thankful I could do it. You do what you have to do when life throws you the big curve balls (all 3 of Mathjak's big 3).
KaraG - You do not know much about what goes on in the working world. And you could work alot more hours than you are accustomed to - if you had too.
Offshore Oilfield standard shift is 12 hours on shift. That goes on for different lengths of time....
28 days on and 28 days off, 8 weeks on and 4 weeks off, 12 weeks on and 4 weeks off etc....
It is all 7 days per week
And lots of working beyond 12 hours per day.
I have been in the oilfield for 40+ years and have spent as many as 9 months offshore in a one year period.
This year since 1-Jan, I have had 8 days off thus far this year....
I work oversea's in a 3rd world location that no one goes to vacation at.....
Just saying.....it can be done
In my wife and I's case....the oil patch has allowed us to pay for our 2 X children college with multiple undergraduate and advanced degree's all in cash - no debt, so that is a good thing
But as you point out - and I agree - everything comes with a price. I was and still am gone working all of the time..... i will be the first to admit that I regret not being at home much when the kids were growing up.
But as a young man with a beautiful wife....I went to work 7 days per week and was thankful for the work.
Now that young wife has turned into a gorgeous lady and mother.
I am hoping to retire in a couple of years and harass that gal full time !
I worked 70-80 hours a week for about 6 years (small biz + job w/benefits). Start at 8:30 am and done between 11 pm - 2 am. Grocery shopping at night at the nice 24/7 Walmart, good time to shop because the store was empty except for the other 2nd shift workers. It's an easy way to save money because you have no time or energy to shop for other things or go places.
I'm not afraid of hard work or working lots of hours, I'm actually thankful I could do it. You do what you have to do when life throws you the big curve balls (all 3 of Mathjak's big 3).
Apparently that is what you and some others here did.
I applaud you for it.
My problem is viewing this as ordinary behavior that ought to be expected. If you worked until 2 a.m. at night and got up at 7:30 a.m. (assuming one hour to prepare and get to work) Than you got by on 5 and 1/2 hours of sleep most nights or every night. This doesn't take into account time for shopping at Walmart, or doing laundry. I am not a heavy sleeper, but I never seriously tried to get by on less than 6 and 1/2 hours sleep. If one intends to operate a motor vehicle doing so is literally a public safety issue.
My real criticism is suggesting that everyone can do what a few exceptional individuals do. The fact I have known so few people in my life with a schedule like that tells me that you are the exceptions and not the rule.
Apparently that is what you and some others here did.
I applaud you for it.
My problem is viewing this as ordinary behavior that ought to be expected. If you worked until 2 a.m. at night and got up at 7:30 a.m. (assuming one hour to prepare and get to work) Than you got by on 5 and 1/2 hours of sleep most nights or every night. This doesn't take into account time for shopping at Walmart, or doing laundry. I am not a heavy sleeper, but I never seriously tried to get by on less than 6 and 1/2 hours sleep. If one intends to operate a motor vehicle doing so is literally a public safety issue.
My real criticism is suggesting that everyone can do what a few exceptional individuals do. The fact I have known so few people in my life with a schedule like that tells me that you are the exceptions and not the rule.
Apparently that is what you and some others here did.
I applaud you for it.
My problem is viewing this as ordinary behavior that ought to be expected. If you worked until 2 a.m. at night and got up at 7:30 a.m. (assuming one hour to prepare and get to work) Than you got by on 5 and 1/2 hours of sleep most nights or every night. This doesn't take into account time for shopping at Walmart, or doing laundry. I am not a heavy sleeper, but I never seriously tried to get by on less than 6 and 1/2 hours sleep. If one intends to operate a motor vehicle doing so is literally a public safety issue.
My real criticism is suggesting that everyone can do what a few exceptional individuals do. The fact I have known so few people in my life with a schedule like that tells me that you are the exceptions and not the rule.
There are a lot more of us than you think. The fact that you have known very few doesn't mean much. They are out there working and probably don't have much time to go meet you. I did basically the same thing--worked two jobs and went to school as well. And, yes, got by on very little sleep. Six hours was a good night. I went for three years one stretch with no day off. You do what you gotta do to feed your family and pay the bills. Eventually I finished school and life got a little better. After a bit, I even got down to one job when I got an emergency fund together and was able to slack off. Now I'm retired and sleep as much as I want.
Those that have had even a middle class income ($50-60k) and have not made at least enough money in the markets over the last few years have only themselves to blame for their stupidity. Please don't tell me that a family making $52k/yr, the median national household income, could not have at least saved/invested 10%, which is $5,000/yr. If they had even started in 2008 and invested each year to date that amount in a retirement account they would have close to $100k by now.
Of course they have a long list of excuses why they don't have that much money... the reality is that they were too busy blowing their money eating out, Starbucks habit, drinking booz, buying expensive cars they can't afford, clothes to fit their image etc. etc.
I mean the market has gone up 300 ****ing percent in the last decade and people are complaining they don't have money and it's not their fault, give me a break!
The above is just the minimum... I know singles making $100k/yr and couples pulling in double that who act like they have no money. Either they are flat out lying or they are stupid beyond measure. As I gave an example, these folks should be rolling in money if they had invested properly.
I submit its a rare person who could work the equivalent of eighty hours a week for a lengthy period of time. That essentially means that one has eight hours a day to eat, sleep, groom one's self, get haircuts, do shopping, go to the doctor and engage in a dozen activities most of us take for granted.
every doctor works 80-100+ hours/week in residency and often times just putting in those hours studying in med school...
oil workers work that many hours during busy/boom times
small business owners work those hours day in and day out, every day they are open
i bet you know people who worked 80-100 hours before, but for some reason ignore it
think doctors make a lot? If someone put in the same hours they do through medical school + residency + fellowship (10 years for all three) then account for the med school debt. Someone who got out right after undergrad, worked 10 years with 2 jobs, after that time period, they would have a higher net worth and if accounting for the income provided by the investment and a $50,000 job, they would have the same income as the average doctor.
every doctor works 80-100+ hours/week in residency and often times just putting in those hours studying in med school...
oil workers work that many hours during busy/boom times
small business owners work those hours day in and day out, every day they are open
i bet you know people who worked 80-100 hours before, but for some reason ignore it
think doctors make a lot? If someone put in the same hours they do through medical school + residency + fellowship (10 years for all three) then account for the med school debt. Someone who got out right after undergrad, worked 10 years with 2 jobs, after that time period, they would have a higher net worth and if accounting for the income provided by the investment and a $50,000 job, they would have the same income as the average doctor.
Perhaps, but the discussion is about minimum wage employees earning a living sufficient to pay for rent, food, utilities, transportation, etc.
Of course people who make $50,000 from a single job can make it. I don't know where this discussion about resident physicians came from.
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