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How does Dave Ramsey's plan 'work' for those who are disabled and living on poverty-level fixed incomes? How do they live on less than they make if rent consumes half their income?
There are millions of Americans for whom I can't see his plan working?
It's funny that someone can be viewed as a financial "guru" for basically telling people "spend less and earn more". In other news, I should be a weight-loss guru for the advice "eat less and exercise more". Oh, wait, there are people who are famous for saying THAT, too.
Really, everyone knows that. It's all about finding effective jedi mind tricks for vast majority of people who COULD do either but don't...just because. The "low hanging fruit" are the 100K couple in their 30's or whatever who run up their credit cards. "Yo, try NOT SPENDING SO DAMN MUCH!" is pretty easy.
Of course, there are people who face tremendous obstacles to doing either, for various reasons. However, most people have fewer and/or easier obstacles than they believe, and the right coaching may motivate them to find their way.
I have no use for Dave Ramsey or Suze Orman or whoever because they don't contribute any extra knowledge to me (in fact, at least some of their advice would make me WORSE off if I took it instead of what I'm doing) and their "coaching" isn't effective for me. But there are vast swaths of the population for whom it's very helpful. To each their own.
I think Ramsey doesn't suffer too many fools or excuses for being in a bad financial situation. And no, it actually doesn't occur to some people to raise their income. Those who are in a mindset of lack and negative thinking can get caught in a vicious cycle of "this is all I've ever have, no matter what..."
1) The OP's thread title -- the the first thing in the OP's first post -- don't really have anything to do with each other -- but, whatever. (The plan works, but it doesn't work if income is too low. Okay?)
2) In response OP's headline: 'After 25 years on the air Dave's plan still works" ....I have another headline....
"After hundreds if not thousands of years COMMON SENSE still works, too." (only it seems, no so common anymore)
One one hand I admire business people who get rich selling common sense.
On the other, it just niggles at me that he's made to be some great financial god/guru, versus someone getting rich selling common sense. His supporters have had too much Kool-Aid.
I have a brother who has been in debt for 30-plus years. I've been telling him the same thing Dave has, but not in Dave's packaged-for-the-masses way. ("Baby steps, gazelle intense, rice-and-beans/beans-and-rice, etc.).....and my brother is acting like it's the first time he's heard the basic information that's underlying the marketing. He said the other day, "the wife and I make too much money to be broke." uh, yah THINK!?!?
Now as for what the OP mentions, people with low incomes (for whatever reason)....yes, if one's income is honestly just too darn low, then no, that person won't have much maneuver room for spending.
Dave's plan works. I just have some personal issues with parts of the plan (for my taste). But then again, I don't need his advice. I listen to him when I can for entertainment purposes only, and I do mean entertainment. Because when every Zander Insurance service or approved "ELP" (Endorsed Local Provider) is mentioned, when he sells or personally pitches anything including his own seminars and proteges -- I think of how he's getting rich off of those endorsements. And when he launched his daughter into the empire -- with the books and seminars, I also just thought nepotism. Not that there's anything wrong with that. For me personally, I just don't buy his -- "Trust me. There's no nepotism here. Her success and position were earned by her merit." Oh the cynic that I am.
I'm sorry I find that really funny. I mean he actually has to tell someone who is making minimum wage they need to get their income up?
They can't figure that out on their own???
Nope. Thee are people who really don't get that going out and finding a better job is an option when they're struggling.
When Bernie Sanders was running for president and pushing for a $15 minimum wage he kept trotting out these sob stories of people who were barely getting by working low wages. In every case it was someone who had stayed in a dead-end job for years and years and had made no effort whatsoever to improve their situation by leaving their comfort zones and finding something with a future.
It doesn't. And he's the first person to tell minimum wage workers they need to create a realistic long term plan to increase their earnings. If you listened to his show, you'd know that.
Poverty level fixed incomes is indeed a problem. Too old or truly unable to work can't be fixed. There's no panacea, but you already knew that. You just enjoy focusing on what doesn't work and what isn't possible instead of trying to implement what does.
Bingo! He almost always asks low income earners what their plans are in the near future to increase their income.
What Dave teaches isn't rocket science or magic, he basically asking you to tighten your belts be frugal and spend less what you make, and save money, don't go to in debt.
11-17-2017, 01:15 PM
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I don't get the Dave Ramsey worship because he's just sells obvious advice.
His debt payoff advice isn't even particularly good since it ends up costing more money. His advice is easy to sell though. he's helping people feel good at the expense of making the best financial decisions.
That said, I don't see any reason to attack him just because (part of) his advice doesn't work if you choose to work part time at a gas station.
Yes I noticed that, and also noticed that most of his debt free callers are two-income couples in their prime of their earnings curve (young and advancing in career). I find the debt free screams annoying. When I hear them I'm thinking something like..."Heck, if I had $180K annual income, MY debt would be paid off in a month! What took you so long?"
It is possible to get ,and be, debt free if you live within , or better yet, below your income. Yes, below since that is the only factor in your control.
We do it by attention to detail on everything in our lives.....and we're on a fixed income. In fact, we manage to save most of our income because we live on a "cash" plan that requires us to pay all bills in full every month. I've managed to save more money since I've retired than when I was working. That's right we save like crazy every month.
It doesn't take a lot of money each month ........it takes attention to detail all the time.
Also learning the full meaning of......"The Concept of Enough".
(There are many ways to explain this concept this is just one look for others to expand your understanding of the concept.)
1) The OP's thread title -- the the first thing in the OP's first post -- don't really have anything to do with each other -- but, whatever. (The plan works, but it doesn't work if income is too low. Okay?)
2) In response OP's headline: 'After 25 years on the air Dave's plan still works" ....I have another headline....
"After hundreds if not thousands of years COMMON SENSE still works, too." (only it seems, no so common anymore)
One one hand I admire business people who get rich selling common sense.
On the other, it just niggles at me that he's made to be some great financial god/guru, versus someone getting rich selling common sense. His supporters have had too much Kool-Aid.
I have a brother who has been in debt for 30-plus years. I've been telling him the same thing Dave has, but not in Dave's packaged-for-the-masses way. ("Baby steps, gazelle intense, rice-and-beans/beans-and-rice, etc.).....and my brother is acting like it's the first time he's heard the basic information that's underlying the marketing. He said the other day, "the wife and I make too much money to be broke." uh, yah THINK!?!?
Now as for what the OP mentions, people with low incomes (for whatever reason)....yes, if one's income is honestly just too darn low, then no, that person won't have much maneuver room for spending.
Dave's plan works. I just have some personal issues with parts of the plan (for my taste). But then again, I don't need his advice. I listen to him when I can for entertainment purposes only, and I do mean entertainment. Because when every Zander Insurance service or approved "ELP" (Endorsed Local Provider) is mentioned, when he sells or personally pitches anything including his own seminars and proteges -- I think of how he's getting rich off of those endorsements. And when he launched his daughter into the empire -- with the books and seminars, I also just thought nepotism. Not that there's anything wrong with that. For me personally, I just don't buy his -- "Trust me. There's no nepotism here. Her success and position were earned by her merit." Oh the cynic that I am.
1) A common thread among personal finance "gurus" is that they pretty much presume an audience with at least an "average" income. Rarely will Dave or Suze engage a caller with a below-average income. From my perspective, they have little or nothing to say to those with below-average incomes.
2) Unlike Dave and Suze, I have something to say to those with below-average incomes - live minimally. But the average American doesn't want to hear that because it is beyond their comfort zone.
[/b]
It is possible to get ,and be, debt free if you live within , or better yet, below your income. Yes, below since that is the only factor in your control.
We do it by attention to detail on everything in our lives.....and we're on a fixed income. In fact, we manage to save most of our income because we live on a "cash" plan that requires us to pay all bills in full every month. I've managed to save more money since I've retired than when I was working. That's right we save like crazy every month.
It doesn't take a lot of money each month ........it takes attention to detail all the time.
Also learning the full meaning of......"The Concept of Enough".
(There are many ways to explain this concept this is just one look for others to expand your understanding of the concept.)
Could you live below your income if rent consumed more than half your income? 11 million Americans pay more than half their income for shelter, and most of them cannot live below their income.
Because The Rent Eats First.
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