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Location: Formerly Pleasanton Ca, now in Marietta Ga
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aredhel
If the loans become dischargable in bankruptcy, I predict student loans will become harder to get. And honestly, that's a good thing. Not only would fewer young people find themselves up to their eyeballs in debt because of foolish borrowing, but employers might just have to change their ways as well. Right now they can only get away with requiring a Bachelor's degree for menial jobs because college degrees are in such over-supply to begin with.
Can you imagine getting half way through college and the lenders cutting you off? You'd be in quite the pickle.
How do people with an ounce of integrity take out an voluntary loan (it is not a medical bill or food or even transportation) and then demand to not be responsible for paying it back?
How do people with an ounce of integrity take out an voluntary loan (it is not a medical bill or food or even transportation) and then demand to not be responsible for paying it back?
So you hold that bankruptcy is immoral?
In fact the student loan is not voluntary. For many it is required to realize their ambitions and desires and what they have worked for very hard to that point. It also is a need that was created by the government and its establishment of these loans as a funding method for higher education. That education was vastly cheaper until this funding source was established. So the Feds basically provided a mechanism to up the cost of an education but insisted on a rule change to sock it to the young people who had to use it.
How do people with an ounce of integrity take out an voluntary loan (it is not a medical bill or food or even transportation) and then demand to not be responsible for paying it back?
It’s nearly impossible to predict the future. You could have medical issues. Job loss. Natural disaster. Recession. Your career feild could go away.
It’s not like you borrowed money from your grandma. You borrowed money from a faceless, process driven creditor that offers little flexibility. Your loan is part of a pool of risk. It’s a commodity. It’s literally a cost of doing business already priced into the margins.
Bankruptcy isn’t about morality. It’s a legal process to allow a fresh start from an untenable situation. Mistakes can be forgiven. Sometimes the reasonable path is a fresh start. To learn from mistakes and move on. I think it’s even more immoral for a family or person to suffer because their financial circumstance substantially changed. Their present destroyed and their future hanging in the balance to pay a debt that is no longer reasonably serviced.
There’s no “demands” being made. It’s submission to a structured process. There will be cancelation of debt taxes owed, and a mark on your credit that will effect you for years.
Debts are contracts. Law. Not morality. Bankruptcy is for situations where your current situation is so far from the original terms of that contract that it requires restructuring. As I pointed out in my first post in this thread, why are students treated so much more harshly than others who may have made mistakes?
What do you want people to do? Be thrown into debtor’s prison, worked to death, or sold into sex slavery like the old days?
Last edited by Thatsright19; 06-15-2018 at 08:14 PM..
How do people with an ounce of integrity take out an voluntary loan (it is not a medical bill or food or even transportation) and then demand to not be responsible for paying it back?
The actual rub here of course is that the college and universities have now established a cost based on the availability of funding from the student loans. So there is no going back.
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It's not the state colleges and universities that have set the cost basis. It's your fault and the fault of every other American taxpayer who has spent the past two decades actively deciding to underfund the higher education system. During the 1960s and 1970s, most states covered 90% or more of the cost to educate a student from the state general fund. These days, it's well below 30% of the cost to instruct. While there is much back patting and criticism for campus construction projects (and capital improvements are easy to get past a state legislature because construction companies are big donors to state legislators) funding for the operations side, which is generally not allowed to be pulled from the capital improvements side, has nowhere kept up with the rise in student population and if you adjust for inflation, a typical state school is getting something like 30% of the per student funding they were in 1985.
And in order to deliver an adequate educational experience, the extra funding has to come from somewhere. It can't be the capital side because the construction companies need their government welfare projects, and endowment revenue only goes far.
So because you refused to adequately fund higher ed from your state's general fund, tuition goes up, grant and scholarship funding can be hit-or-miss (some states like Georgia and Florida do a good job of giving in-state academic scholarships paid for by things like lottery ticket sales, other states not so much) and the loans are a response to the very real funding gap that has grown over the past 30 or so years.
why are you lending people money for their education?
The overwhelming majority of student loans are owned by the US Department of Education, around $1.2 trillion. So if you pay taxes YOU are loaning money to people for their education.
The overwhelming majority of student loans are owned by the US Department of Education, around $1.2 trillion. So if you pay taxes YOU are loaning money to people for their education.
You’ve got to love the U.S government. In the year of the article, they made $50 billion in profit from the federal student loan program. More than any U.s corporation, including Apple, Exxon mobile, and JP Morgan chase. I wonder if THAT is moral. Not just profiting off the education system, but doing so at such a high margin. The congressional budget office projected $180 billion in profit over the decade since then. Don’t feel too bad for the “poor taxpayer”.
Print money from thin air, and charge it out to students at interest at a rate of profitability unmatched. All the while, the spigot of cheap money from the government is making the cost of education go up multiples of the normal inflation rate. The solution? More non-risk based lending from the government! And of course, the government can garnish your wages, take your tax refunds, social security payments, and have control over the bankruptcy law.
But that’s the federal reserve system of debt is money and money is debt for you. It’s always looking for ways to create more debt for the U.s government and its citizens. Education and Healthcare are the perfect candidates.
Last edited by Thatsright19; 06-16-2018 at 04:44 AM..
The overwhelming majority of student loans are owned by the US Department of Education, around $1.2 trillion. So if you pay taxes YOU are loaning money to people for their education.
this is one of the things that makes government so scary. people believe that it gives them a right to tell other people what to do and what not to do. when a bank loans money, dont you think that they would love to have the strictest possible terms and protection under the law? as a taxpayer who contributes a tiny bit to the subsidizing of student loans, what makes you think you deserve any more say than an actual lender?
people are so evil when they can use the power of government to ruin other people.
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