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Why is it wrong? If the designer dog breeder is doing it right, he will be using dogs and b*itches that are of breeding quality in his program, and those animals are not cheap to acquire. Then he will be doing extensive health screening (especially for hidden genetic defects) on his breeding stock before producing a single litter, as well as putting in the necessary time to properly socialize each litter after it is born. Do you think the resulting quality puppies will be cheap?
(If he's not doing it right, he's taking advantage of the ignorant public's opinion that "designer dogs," because they are crossbreds, are inherently better than purebreds, and using lousy breeding stock because it's cheaper. Unfortunately, this does describe most breeders of "designer dogs.")
And you might want to look at the what the pound euthanasia rates were during your childhood, when randomly-bred puppies were being given away for free right and left, before you get too nostalgic for those times. Today, the emphasis on spay/neuter has all but emptied out the pounds in many communities; some areas are now actually importing dogs from the south (where spay/neuter hasn't caught on to the same degree as up north) for adoption.
Some do. Some don't. A lot of the problems people are always discussing in the Dog subforum on CD are ultimately due to inherited temperament problems, which could potentially have been avoided by more care in selecting breeding stock. Temperament is HIGHLY heritable, but its importance is often neglected by more casual breeders.
And remember, not all dogs are just pets. There's still a need for working animals, and good working dogs generally don't come from random matings.
We already have taken big steps to shut down mills. What you don't seem to want to accept is that there are limits to what laws can accomplish.
So how are you going to write enforceable laws requiring commercial breeding operations to only use animals of sound temperament in their breeding operations (bearing in mind that what constitutes a desirable temperament varies from breed to breed)? How are you going to enforce laws requiring that they do proper health testing (especially genetic screening) on all their stock (again, bearing in mind that the particular types of screens needed vary between breeds)? How are you going to enforce laws demanding a certain amount of socialization of the puppies (as opposed to laws which ban shipping puppies below a certain age)? Laws that cannot be enforced are useless.
Because they aren't violating the animal cruelty statutes in your particular state? You can lobby to make your state's laws stronger, if your state's laws are particularly lax. That would be helpful.
Key words being "do not want." Of course the puppy mill owners are happy to give away economically worthless dogs, and they're happy to allow rescues run by bleeding hearts to do the sad work of trying to rehome those dogs. Try taking their breeding stock away - that's a whole different story. They WILL fight back in court, and unless the state can make an animal cruelty charge stick, the mill will win. it's not against the law to breed dogs (even crappy dogs) for sale.
You have to get the proof first. And it takes a lot of proof to win a conviction in court.
And they forever will be, because stupid, cruel people will always be with us. We can punish then after the fact, but stopping their cruelty in the first place is all but impossible.
That's how things work now; the state can investigate reports of abuse. But they can't shut down a breeding operation (commercial or otherwise) unless they can prove abuse in court. (Which is how it should be.) Some states have tougher animal cruelty laws than others; toughening up the laxer ones is an achievable goal. But it won't completely solve the problem, as abusive small-scale breeders will slip through the cracks.
I'm not looking to solve the problem completely, nothing is 100% full proof, but a little here and a little there to make it better is hard work on the part of many people, baby steps, but in years to come, those efforts would lead to more and more efforts. Good things take time, that is the problem with today, everyone views instant gratification, but people are unable to look at long term effects....which takes time, years, maybe, one step at a time.
It is beyond me, that people didn't recognize how the liberal main stream media was paid to outlaw cigerettes, over the years, even convincing people that 2nd hand smoke can kill, (HAH) and I don't smoke, but we can't help these lives....amazing.?????
I'm not looking to solve the problem completely, nothing is 100% full proof, but a little here and a little there to make it better is hard work on the part of many people, baby steps, but in years to come, those efforts would lead to more and more efforts. Good things take time, that is the problem with today, everyone views instant gratification, but people are unable to look at long term effects....which takes time, years, maybe, one step at a time.
And what you're not acknowledging is that people HAVE been doing just what you advocate - working for change one small step at a time - and it absolutely HAS decreased the puppy mill problem greatly. Tougher animal welfare laws, public education campaigns, and outlawing the sale of puppies and kittens in pet stores have made the puppy mill issue a much smaller problem than it was just a few decades ago. When was the last time you saw puppies for sale in a pet store window?
More public education (especially about the pitfalls of buying dogs online or off of Craigslist) is what is needed now.
And what you're not acknowledging is that people HAVE been doing just what you advocate - working for change one small step at a time - and it absolutely HAS decreased the puppy mill problem greatly. Tougher animal welfare laws, public education campaigns, and outlawing the sale of puppies and kittens in pet stores have made the puppy mill issue a much smaller problem than it was just a few decades ago. When was the last time you saw puppies for sale in a pet store window?
More public education (especially about the pitfalls of buying dogs online or off of Craigslist) is what is needed now.
it might also help if these so called rescues did not charge 400 for a dog right up front as well . I kid you not I saw an ad from a rescue and the re home fee was a thousand bucks I kid you not . I would never give a thousand dollars for any dog purebred or not sorry . 400 is hard enough to come up with but a thousand jeeze ... not when people can go to the pound and get a dog for 70 bucks ... give me a break .
it might also help if these so called rescues did not charge 400 for a dog right up front as well . I kid you not I saw an ad from a rescue and the re home fee was a thousand bucks I kid you not . I would never give a thousand dollars for any dog purebred or not sorry . 400 is hard enough to come up with but a thousand jeeze ... not when people can go to the pound and get a dog for 70 bucks ... give me a break .
I guess it's like everything else, I've had some good experiences with a rescue, and had one very bad experience, plus I knew a gal who helped on, which she quit which was also bad.
Some are unfortunately in it for the money, and when I see the SPCA advertise on TV it makes my blood boil, b/c you know people are paying for those commercials...man can sometimes be a greedy sob.
you can be the best breeder in the world, but when you start charging between 3 to 7 thousand for a pup, that is greed.
I guess it's like everything else, I've had some good experiences with a rescue, and had one very bad experience, plus I knew a gal who helped on, which she quit which was also bad.
Some are unfortunately in it for the money, and when I see the SPCA advertise on TV it makes my blood boil, b/c you know people are paying for those commercials...man can sometimes be a greedy sob.
you can be the best breeder in the world, but when you start charging between 3 to 7 thousand for a pup, that is greed.
amen it sure is and you know I use the humane society a lot for like spaying or neutering and doing my part and plus I know that money is going to be put to good use and the humane society only charges 70 here to adopt and the animal is already fixed . plus I donate l/o food when I change my dogs food which is about once a year to prevent yeast buildup ...
Last edited by phonelady61; 12-15-2016 at 08:50 AM..
Reason: spelling
Change has been happening but at a much slower rate than many of us would like. Back in the 70's it's estimated that about 70 million adoptable dogs and cats were euthanized each year. Now that number is down to around 3 million, in large part due to growing spay/neuter so that there are far fewer unplanned puppies and kittens born since there are many low cost S/N clinics all over the country.
Back in 2007 I was one of many people who helped out when a local miller was finally investigated and charged with multiple counts of neglect, etc. He had over 1,100 dogs, sold on line for the most part. He was eventually shut down and since it was such a huge case it helped to change state laws here in VA, reducing the number of breeding age dogs from 500 down to 50 if I recall correctly. The miller, Lanzie "Junior" Horton paid some fines and was prohibited from breeding dogs in VA so he simply moved to Millersburg, Ohio and now operates another mill because the laws there are not as stringent.
Change has been happening but at a much slower rate than many of us would like. Back in the 70's it's estimated that about 70 million adoptable dogs and cats were euthanized each year. Now that number is down to around 3 million, in large part due to growing spay/neuter so that there are far fewer unplanned puppies and kittens born since there are many low cost S/N clinics all over the country.
Back in 2007 I was one of many people who helped out when a local miller was finally investigated and charged with multiple counts of neglect, etc. He had over 1,100 dogs, sold on line for the most part. He was eventually shut down and since it was such a huge case it helped to change state laws here in VA, reducing the number of breeding age dogs from 500 down to 50 if I recall correctly. The miller, Lanzie "Junior" Horton paid some fines and was prohibited from breeding dogs in VA so he simply moved to Millersburg, Ohio and now operates another mill because the laws there are not as stringent.
Okay first off millersburg ohio is very amish too and some amish run puppy mills . In ohio animals are considered property and it is because Ohio is too vested in farm animals to worry about puppy mills . I know northern Ohio has a lot of farms and a lot are dairy and beef . I feel bad for any animal in Ohio.
In ohio animals are considered property and it is because Ohio is too vested in farm animals to worry about puppy mills.
Animals are considered property in every state that I am aware of. But some states have much tougher laws regarding how that property is to be treated (especially when the animals in question are traditionally kept as pets, as opposed to livestock) than others do.
Public education combined with toughening state laws are the keys to reducing the number of puppy mills in operation. The former reduces demand for the product, the latter makes it possible to get mill owners convicted in court of animal cruelty and violation of commerce laws (necessary if their disgusting breeding operations are to be legally closed).
why is it, dog rescues, always say, never ever buy a dog from a pet store, b/c those dogs are from puppy mills, and yet, rescues obtain a lot of their dogs from Puppy mills.
and why aren't states doing something in this day and age to shut down puppy mills.
Thanks so much
The rescue I got Ryder from pulls pure-bred (or mostly pure-bred) Siberian Huskies from shelters/animal control in NC and the surrounding states. They won't take dogs from rehoming situations. I get their rationale on that -- most shelters will hold a dog for a limited amount of time before they are euthanized. By pulling the dogs from shelters, the rescue is prolonging/saving a life. Also, the rescue only pulls Siberians, so they know the breed and know what kind of owners will work best for the breed. They HAVE pulled some puppy mill dogs, but only after animal control got involved and raided the mill and took the dogs into possession. Most of the dogs the rescue gets their hands on are adults. They only rarely pull puppies...and usually those pups are adolescents rather than juveniles.
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