Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Philosophy
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 04-27-2012, 08:41 PM
 
2,854 posts, read 2,053,876 times
Reputation: 348

Advertisements

living things must do 3 things
1) maintain their form
2) reproduce that form
3) evolve


the original state of existence was probably a single singularity that gave rise to a highly chaotic and ever expanding sea of singularities in which even space didn't exist.
instead, the singularities interacted by means of entanglement.
besides being able to split into 2, each singularity would have to be able to 'see' at least 2 other singularities and be 'seen' by at least 2 others.
(similar to how a water molecule make 4 bonds with neighboring water molecules)
Otherwise the universe would be trivial and incapable of producing what we see around us.
this khaos possessed none of the 3 properties above.

by chance, self reproducing loops (strings) eventually formed in this chaos (and eventually formed spacetime)
these loops could reproduce but they could not evolve so they were not 'alive'
this is similar to how fire can reproduce itself but cant evolve


when these self reproducing loops came in contact with the original khaos they would 'freeze'.
they would no longer reproduce but they would still be able to maintain their form.

so the original state of existence would have 3 regions.
1) a region of watery khaos
2) a region of self reproducing loops (a sort of fire)
3) a region between them of ice (either)


asking where that original singularity came from is no different than asking questions like:
whats north of the north pole
whats beyond space?
whats before time?
what caused the first cause?
whats the sound of one hand clapping
these are all meaningless questions.


in our world we can cut something into 2 identical pieces.
but they arent really identical because they occupy different locations.
in a world without space 2 completely identical objects could not meaningfully be said to be 2 different objects.
so teh act of dividing into 2 requires that the 2 resulting objects be distinct in some way.
hence the idea of making a distinction
hence the singularities 'see' each other and 'distinguish' between them in some way or other
which also explains why it was chaotic rather than perfectly uniform (as one would naturally expect)

If there is no space then what separates thise multiple singularities and keeps them from being a singular singularity?
The same thing that keeps things from falling off the sides of the round earth.
nothing.
nothing needs to do so because that simply isnt the way things work.


When God first evolved in the initial universe (which was nothing like our universe)
he wouldnt have had any way of knowing what had happened up to that time
so the first thing he would do is create a simulation, perfect in every detail, of his own universe
and start it with the same initial conditions that his own universe started with in order to see how he came to be.
all the events happening in this new simulation would be perfect mirror images of the events that occurred long before in the first universe.
In this simulation another identical God would evolve.

So you would end up with an elder 'God the father' and a younger 'God the son'.


this universe that we are living in has all the appearance of a simulation
that was started from a small seed and allowed to continue on its own without any intervention from the designers.
Why would they do that?
They would do that if they wanted to create millions of identical simulations
then study how minor changes or interventions resulted in different outcomes.
That could be very valuable information if you are trying to govern an entire universe.

If so then it conceivable that someone could come to this universe
from an identical simulation that has progressed further into the future than ours.
They would appear to us to be time travelers.
Now that is a truly wild thought!

Last edited by granpa; 04-27-2012 at 09:04 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-27-2012, 08:51 PM
 
120 posts, read 119,360 times
Reputation: 56
i am glad that i am here.. however we got here in this form ,, we can only guess and assume ,but the truth is we will neever fully be able to put it into a box.. we are life itself and we here now to live it.

for some reason we are more concerned with how we got here and who is right and wrong instead of living and allowing the beauty of life that is within us to pour out effortlessly onto this world ..tthe mind creates so much suffering
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-28-2012, 06:47 PM
 
2,854 posts, read 2,053,876 times
Reputation: 348
my thoughts along these lines are further continued in the thread here

arthopods in mythology and the bible
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-26-2012, 07:31 PM
 
2,854 posts, read 2,053,876 times
Reputation: 348
this original sea of singularities no longer exists.




And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

8 And God called the firmament Heaven

And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let appear the dry


the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:

48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away


And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-27-2012, 01:53 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Canada
1,975 posts, read 1,941,190 times
Reputation: 918
the materials that form us were formed in nuclear reaction in stars







Neil DeGrasse Tyson "We Are Stardust" - YouTube
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-27-2012, 03:22 PM
 
2,854 posts, read 2,053,876 times
Reputation: 348
and stars are made of strings which are made of singularities
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-27-2012, 04:30 PM
 
496 posts, read 483,903 times
Reputation: 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by granpa View Post
living things must do 3 things
1) maintain their form
2) reproduce that form
3) evolve


the original state of existence was probably a single singularity that gave rise to a highly chaotic and ever expanding sea of singularities in which even space didn't exist.
instead, the singularities interacted by means of entanglement.
besides being able to split into 2, each singularity would have to be able to 'see' at least 2 other singularities and be 'seen' by at least 2 others.
(similar to how a water molecule make 4 bonds with neighboring water molecules)
Otherwise the universe would be trivial and incapable of producing what we see around us.
this khaos possessed none of the 3 properties above.

by chance, self reproducing loops (strings) eventually formed in this chaos (and eventually formed spacetime)
these loops could reproduce but they could not evolve so they were not 'alive'
this is similar to how fire can reproduce itself but cant evolve


when these self reproducing loops came in contact with the original khaos they would 'freeze'.
they would no longer reproduce but they would still be able to maintain their form.

so the original state of existence would have 3 regions.
1) a region of watery khaos
2) a region of self reproducing loops (a sort of fire)
3) a region between them of ice (either)


asking where that original singularity came from is no different than asking questions like:
whats north of the north pole
whats beyond space?
whats before time?
what caused the first cause?
whats the sound of one hand clapping
these are all meaningless questions.


in our world we can cut something into 2 identical pieces.
but they arent really identical because they occupy different locations.
in a world without space 2 completely identical objects could not meaningfully be said to be 2 different objects.
so teh act of dividing into 2 requires that the 2 resulting objects be distinct in some way.
hence the idea of making a distinction
hence the singularities 'see' each other and 'distinguish' between them in some way or other
which also explains why it was chaotic rather than perfectly uniform (as one would naturally expect)

If there is no space then what separates thise multiple singularities and keeps them from being a singular singularity?
The same thing that keeps things from falling off the sides of the round earth.
nothing.
nothing needs to do so because that simply isnt the way things work.


When God first evolved in the initial universe (which was nothing like our universe)
he wouldnt have had any way of knowing what had happened up to that time
so the first thing he would do is create a simulation, perfect in every detail, of his own universe
and start it with the same initial conditions that his own universe started with in order to see how he came to be.
all the events happening in this new simulation would be perfect mirror images of the events that occurred long before in the first universe.
In this simulation another identical God would evolve.

So you would end up with an elder 'God the father' and a younger 'God the son'.


this universe that we are living in has all the appearance of a simulation
that was started from a small seed and allowed to continue on its own without any intervention from the designers.
Why would they do that?
They would do that if they wanted to create millions of identical simulations
then study how minor changes or interventions resulted in different outcomes.
That could be very valuable information if you are trying to govern an entire universe.

If so then it conceivable that someone could come to this universe
from an identical simulation that has progressed further into the future than ours.
They would appear to us to be time travelers.
Now that is a truly wild thought!
The singularity idea is only a consequence in the failure of the math to go further. Its not a clearly devised reality.
String Theory is only metaphysics, thats my understanding. Nothing is really known in these areas. Easily evidenced by all the incredible amount of prof theories everywhere with millions of different twists and turns. The more thats uncovered the greater layers of questions and confusion.

Its a panic to put creation in a box....no one will ever do this because our minds are physically finite, and what were dealing with is a comprehension of infinity, as infinity is within the language of what is being revealed in creation. A forever wonder....

Last edited by peter-1; 05-27-2012 at 04:42 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-27-2012, 04:33 PM
 
2,854 posts, read 2,053,876 times
Reputation: 348
you are referring to gravitational singularities which indeed may not exist.

the original singularity was 'everything'.
it was a single event which, at that time, constituted all of existence.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-27-2012, 05:00 PM
 
496 posts, read 483,903 times
Reputation: 61
Ok thanks, I can see how it is interesting in many ways as the thread progress's.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-27-2012, 08:45 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 12,920,995 times
Reputation: 3767
Quote:
Originally Posted by granpa View Post
living things must do 3 things
1) maintain their form
2) reproduce that form
3) evolve

the original state of existence was probably a single singularity that gave rise to a highly chaotic and ever expanding sea of singularities in which even space didn't exist.
Ooops. Major Oooopppsss! You'd better explain this "singularities" idea you've just casually dropped here and then exponentially built everythingg else on as if your singularities wer some sort of proven entity or state of being.

Nope! It's far too obtuse and obfuscatory. You need to explain your imaginary hypothetical concepts more thoroughly before you go on with all those other dependent exigencies, eh, youngé?

Only then we can talk. Thanks, chappy!

Esp. since in fact we live in a Godless universe. He's but a man-made concept, obviously far to conveniently oriented around our needy but obviously hominid psyches.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Philosophy
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top