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That is not true, I am assuming you are one those types that has only worked a regular gig. I have earned large sums of money independent contracting. You are able to support yourself, but the checks aren't steady or you are not sure when it is coming but you able to support yourself.
In addition, how about if you want to start your own business, it takes awhile to get things off the ground.
So basically you are saying a person should try even with a business plan because it is not steady immediately?
You've completely missed the point. I think it's great when people start businesses. I think it's awesome when people want to work at jobs they love.
But you have to be able to support yourself. Go for it, with whatever you do. I have a friend that works her rear off for 6 months a year. Then she kicks back for the other 6 months. She makes enough during that time to support herself. But don't whine and complain that you can't "do what you want to do because you have to work a joooooob" to support yourself. As long as you don't expect someone else to pay your way, do whatever you want.
so do you see working as "suffering to live"? you are trading your life for x amount of money, on top of physical or mental labor.
Yes, absolutely. If I had any kind of job satisfaction in the computer industry, I'd be working and getting paid lots of money. But I don't; I can't stand most of what goes on in industrial computer programming. I'm trying to find some kind of personal answer to the problem of computer programming. I have chosen to be homeless and live out of my car, meanwhile. It's not easy to just jump back into the industry after I've been away for awhile, and I have very little money, so yes this is real homelessness of a sort. Just not as destitute as people who live out of shelters or on foot. I still have enough funds to maintain my car, because it's old, I own it, and when I had more money I learned how to fix it.
Living out of my car can waste a fair amount of my time too, though. I had my situation pretty much mastered in Asheville, but there's this one little problem: the weather. So now I'm in transition trying to figure out a good winter location. I'm typing this from a library in Wilmington NC, and I'm thinking, why am I here? It's warmER but not especially warm. Dealing with cold gets in the way of work. I also need to eat. I've got some eggs which I need to cook. I can drive to a park to do that. But that's a lot of time + some gas, just for these few free eggs that I was given. Part of the reason I often don't cook, because it's such a timewaster. On the other hand I could make some bean chili as long as I'm at it, then not have to cook for a week. I could also buy more eggs and then have them ready any time I want.
But I also need ice to refrigerate such things in my cooler, which costs money. I've been trying to live without needing ice, just buying what I need as I need it. Mainly this is because I don't know a source in Wilmington for cheaper ice yet, and I hate paying $2 for a 10 lb. bag of ice. Ice can be had for $2 per 20 lb. in some places, but you have to know where those places are, and here I don't. I don't like being gouged. I've also not been successful at trying to make my own ice.
So the reality is right now, I'm hungry, I can't concentrate, I don't like the city I'm in, I'm going to have to do some things about this, and this is going to waste some of my time. It's not a crisis, it's a transition, but I do find myself wondering when the "real" problems are ever gonna be solved. It's very easy to slide along indefinitely.
On the other hand, I have survived through low-paid work in the past, maintaining an apartment etc. It did not make me happy, it was a grind. I didn't have anything to show for having that roof over my head, no social life, no dates, no fun. So if my complaints about Wilmington and being hungry at the library and ice and my car seem like a waste of time, the "keep a roof over my head" drill was definitely a much bigger waste of time, for no benefit at all.
Maybe I should solve the ice problem permanently somehow. That would be something to do. The reality is, I got to the library, had some vague ideas that "now I'll do 'real' work, somehow," got hungry and bored, got distracted by the usual pile of internet distractions like this forum, and am now just blathering on about the Existential crisis of work. 'Cuz this is a philosophy forum, you asked, and it is the reason I'm out here doing this.
In 3 years of mostly being on the road, I've learned that the biggest limiting factor is lack of social life. You can imagine all sorts of inventions for living out in a National Forest, but ultimately they won't do you much good, because sooner or later you're going to want to do things with people. Like have sex with them. Or talk to them. Only so much you can do with a tree.
Now in Asheville, I was starting to develop some semblance of a social life. I had Meetup groups to go to. I'd even find a woman occasionally show a glimmer of interest, even if nothing ever seemed to work out. Met someone just days before I was planning to leave because of Thanksgiving / Christmas family stuff. If I was merely worrying about family obligations, I could have staunchly blown those off. But it was getting colder and colder and I knew it eventually would snow. I had to face the reality that I'm not equipped to handle winters in the mountains, that I have to find a 2nd city to exist in for part of the year. It's annoying because I felt that Asheville was sort of working.
Oh well. I'm just pointing out how your time will get wasted no matter what you do. You need a goal that's stated in the positive somehow, like "I want to write my own computer games" or "I want to be a painter" or "I want to make electronic music" or "I want to train as a martial artist" or "I want to build a steam engine that makes electricity". Just saying you don't want your time to be wasted, is phrased in the negative and it isn't enough.
Be grateful you have JOBS people! Be grateful that someone is willing to PAY you to work 8 hrs per day and learn a little gratitude instead of pi$$ing and moaning constantly!
I will never be grateful to a Capitalist Pig offering me a low wage so that he/she can extract my surplus labor value and laugh all the way to the bank, which then defaults, and the taxpayers bail out his/her grandiose scheme to get rich all over again.
Even people who have Union jobs should never be grateful for them. They are bargained dearly for.
All you of you folks that feel like your lives are wasted by working? How do propose to support yourselves? Steal or beg from those that DO work? NOTHING if free in this world. And to expect to take from someone else's hard earned living makes you selfish.
I propose, that in a modern industrial society, food really doesn't have to be an issue. The USA manufactures far more food than it needs to feed everyone, and the consumers of the food are incredibly wasteful. We could have food be "a solved problem" for society, except for that problem of businesses wanting to use it as an engine of profit. You become really aware of this when you take people's well-sealed leftovers out of trash cans, shop at closeout "near the expiry date" grocery stores, and go to food pantries bringing out large boxes of "expired" produce and bread. Probably not every city is equally well endowed with food, as tourism and affluence do yield significant bonanzas. But there are definitely some cities where no homeless person even has to think about food. I've met some that completely blew off food stamp benefits because they simply didn't need them.
I cut costs by salvaging food. I'd be willing to manufacture some of my own food. Currently I'm limited by what I can do in my car. I haven't come up with a good growing plan that addresses the reality of my circumstances.
I don't have answers for the other societal problems that impinge upon homelessness: land use, safety, medical care. But food, I think we could all get past. If everyone was growing something in the small amount of space under their own control....
No one......NO one, should have to work their butts off to support a stranger who's just to effing lazy (or entitled) to support themselves.
Right... and the question is, why do you buy into this mythology that this is how labor is distributed, now? Do you think when someone grows food on a farm, that they personally nurture every single green pepper by hand? Do you imagine yourself doing some kind of back breaking labor with a hoe and a mule like it's the 19th century, then some shabby homeless person comes up to munch on your grub? No, that's not how it's done. We have machines and massive industrial output now. Those machines provide massive energetic profit. You don't personally sweat and toil unduly just so someone can eat for a year, any more than electrical grid systems powered by dams that run a light bulb for a year.
Basic machines and land use, however, are harnessed by people who want to make a lot of profit at other people's expense. What could be solved social problems, are instead made into a treadmill of human effort, with a few at the top making no effort at all. This game is played of making workers desperate, so that they will be envious of each other, and will divide-and-conquer anyone who is "not working." Who are you working for? Yourself?? Most people are not, they're working for someone much higher up who controls their means of material production.
Sure, someone's gotta run and fix machines. One can consider the design of sustainable machines, that do not become shackles in and of themselves. Fossil fuel driven farming is not a good technological direction.
Even most people who don't need to worry about money need to find ways to keep themselves busy i8n a productive way.
Do I enjoy working? Sometimes, sometimes not - which I assume is the norm for a lot of people. One thing I know for sure through experience is that my free time is a lot more valuable when I am working than when I am not.
I second this. When I was young (late teens, early 20's) I had a couple of stretches on unemployment. Even though I lived with my grandmother and didn't have to worry about basic needs, I also squandered most of my time off (laying on the couch watching TV for hours, things like that). Invariably when I started a job again, I would wish I didn't have to, but my grandmother would always comment that I seemed much happier when I was working. I think she was right, in that I felt purposeless when I wasn't.
I propose, that in a modern industrial society, food really doesn't have to be an issue. The USA manufactures far more food than it needs to feed everyone, and the consumers of the food are incredibly wasteful. We could have food be "a solved problem" for society, except for that problem of businesses wanting to use it as an engine of profit. You become really aware of this when you take people's well-sealed leftovers out of trash cans, shop at closeout "near the expiry date" grocery stores, and go to food pantries bringing out large boxes of "expired" produce and bread. Probably not every city is equally well endowed with food, as tourism and affluence do yield significant bonanzas. But there are definitely some cities where no homeless person even has to think about food. I've met some that completely blew off food stamp benefits because they simply didn't need them.
I cut costs by salvaging food. I'd be willing to manufacture some of my own food. Currently I'm limited by what I can do in my car. I haven't come up with a good growing plan that addresses the reality of my circumstances.....
I certainly agree that there is lots of surplus food in the United States, and lots of wasted food. Personally I abhor waste - the amount of usable food that goes out in my garbage is essentially zero. But I have read so many times the same thing you posted, namely that there are well-sealed leftovers around and other sources of "free" food. My own example, from observation, is still-sealed sandwiches from home thrown out by school children who, for whatever reason, have chosen not to eat those sandwiches on that given day.
However, having said that: There is only a certain finite amount of left-over (surplus) food, not an infinite amount. There is a tipping point at which this wasted food would not longer suffice for those who wish to eat for free. That is, there is a limit to the number of people who can successfully chose to live off of the (admittedly disgusting) wastefulness of others. It is not a solution at the societal level to say, Oh well, no one needs to work because we can all just scavenge food. In other words there is an equilibrium, a balance point, beyond which the system would collapse into serious hunger and starvation.
Right now, well and good, but as a "model" for how things ought to be, not so good.
I will never be grateful to a Capitalist Pig offering me a low wage so that he/she can extract my surplus labor value and laugh all the way to the bank, which then defaults, and the taxpayers bail out his/her grandiose scheme to get rich all over again.
Even people who have Union jobs should never be grateful for them. They are bargained dearly for.
I suggest you start your own company! You will be a fabulous boss, I'm sure. You'll always treat your employees equally, or at least fairly and even if it means going without, yourself, you will make sure to pay your employees what THEY feel they're worth. After all...you'd be so grateful to each and every one of them. Without them, you wouldn't HAVE a business.
Right... and the question is, why do you buy into this mythology that this is how labor is distributed, now? Do you think when someone grows food on a farm, that they personally nurture every single green pepper by hand? Do you imagine yourself doing some kind of back breaking labor with a hoe and a mule like it's the 19th century, then some shabby homeless person comes up to munch on your grub? No, that's not how it's done. We have machines and massive industrial output now. Those machines provide massive energetic profit. You don't personally sweat and toil unduly just so someone can eat for a year, any more than electrical grid systems powered by dams that run a light bulb for a year.
Basic machines and land use, however, are harnessed by people who want to make a lot of profit at other people's expense. What could be solved social problems, are instead made into a treadmill of human effort, with a few at the top making no effort at all. This game is played of making workers desperate, so that they will be envious of each other, and will divide-and-conquer anyone who is "not working." Who are you working for? Yourself?? Most people are not, they're working for someone much higher up who controls their means of material production.
Sure, someone's gotta run and fix machines. One can consider the design of sustainable machines, that do not become shackles in and of themselves. Fossil fuel driven farming is not a good technological direction.
Are you seriously this clueless? ....or did you just take a couple of big ole bong hits right before you read my post?.....then decided to type this deep, well-thought-out...(out there?) post.
Ah, but I, for one....did the "music scene" and "performed" for 25 years, mostly as a "side job". When you'd rather be doing something else....it still feels an awful lot like a job. Sure, you get to do what you enjoy doing, you make a little money doing what you like, you get gushing admiration and praise, but in the end....if the family wants to do something, and the musician in the family has a "gig", or a whole lot of new music that they're working on, for an upcoming event, you still have to put off the family stuff in order to "work" on the music.
Many a time, when I was doing music, my husband and kids had to go on about their lives, without me, because I was working. Either I was working on the music at home or I was working at the event that I was playing for. Generally, those events fall on weekends. When you're working during the week and playing on the weekends......yeah, kinda like work.
That's the kicker... you did it as a side job. That means you had some other "main job" that took up a significant portion of your time, and then you did your music as an "extra thing". I grant that family obligations have to be put to the curb if you have a show, since the shows bring the dough... but is it not possible to schedule shows around family things? My wife and I have done pretty well with that so far... we figure out where we want to be and when, and we'll schedule accordingly. The only family things that we have missed out on are the stuff that is thrown at us in an "oh by the way" fashion. For example, we missed my wife's little cousin's birthday party at the beginning of this month, but neither of us knew about it until the girl told us, three weeks before it happened. We need at least two months' advance notice of anything in order to schedule around it.
Our music life is pretty chill, all things considered. We won't get rich doing what we're doing now but we will enjoy life with few issues. Now if only we could reduce the amount of driving we have to do, to be musicians.... *sigh*
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Food - supluses, balances and other thoughts
