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(This follows from a previous thread about the nature of matter...I was going to include this there, but I realized I was going off on a tangent...)
Are supernatural beings physically possible?
Probably not, according to the laws of physics.
Merriam-Webster defines 'supernatural' as:
Quote:
1: of or relating to an order of existence beyond the visible observable universe; especially: of or relating to God or a god, demigod, spirit, or devil'
With the above definition, we can draw the logical conclusion that 'supernatural' beings exist outside of our universe. What does that mean for the ghost hiding up in your grandmother's attic, then?
Well...to be blunt, it means that it probably doesn't exist.
Here's the thing: anything that exists in this universe is subject to its physical laws. Everything, from ants to zebras, operates on a specific set of principles that are fundimental to the nature of our reality.
A 'supernatural' being, then, would not be able to maintain even the simplest atomic structure in our universe. It would cease to exist the instant it appeared. And here's an even more mind-bending concept...
...it might not even have sensory systems capable of comprehending a three-dimensional universe. All of our perceptive capability depends on the three-dimensional nature of our universe; a supernatural being, that is not subject to our laws of physics, would probably not be able to make sense of what it sees, if it sees anything at all.
Anyhow....food for thought....my head, as usual, is hurting from trying to understand what I just typed.... :P
However we are still discovering just what those physical laws are. With string theory multiuniverse postulated everything we think we know may be out the window. I guess never say never.
(This follows from a previous thread about the nature of matter...I was going to include this there, but I realized I was going off on a tangent...)
Are supernatural beings physically possible?
Probably not, according to the laws of physics.
Merriam-Webster defines 'supernatural' as:
With the above definition, we can draw the logical conclusion that 'supernatural' beings exist outside of our universe. What does that mean for the ghost hiding up in your grandmother's attic, then?
Well...to be blunt, it means that it probably doesn't exist.
Here's the thing: anything that exists in this universe is subject to its physical laws. Everything, from ants to zebras, operates on a specific set of principles that are fundimental to the nature of our reality.
A 'supernatural' being, then, would not be able to maintain even the simplest atomic structure in our universe. It would cease to exist the instant it appeared. And here's an even more mind-bending concept...
...it might not even have sensory systems capable of comprehending a three-dimensional universe. All of our perceptive capability depends on the three-dimensional nature of our universe; a supernatural being, that is not subject to our laws of physics, would probably not be able to make sense of what it sees, if it sees anything at all.
Anyhow....food for thought....my head, as usual, is hurting from trying to understand what I just typed.... :P
How about a god that is blind, deaf and lost in the universe?
Anyone could get lost in the universe. It would be practically impossible to find Earth among so many stars and planets. So maybe god exists but it's totally irrelevant.
Location: "Silicon Valley" (part of San Francisco Bay Area, California, USA)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wise TibetanMonkey
How about a god that is blind, deaf and lost in the universe?
Anyone could get lost in the universe. It would be practically impossible to find Earth among so many stars and planets. So maybe god exists but it's totally irrelevant.
You mean "maybe God exists".
And I think if God were to be blind deaf and lost in the universe, He wouldn't be God, unless He is limiting Himself to understand humanity (or another sentient species somewhere else) better.
Location: "Silicon Valley" (part of San Francisco Bay Area, California, USA)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FredNotBob
(This follows from a previous thread about the nature of matter...I was going to include this there, but I realized I was going off on a tangent...)
Are supernatural beings physically possible?
Probably not, according to the laws of physics.
I'm not sure how science would have a comment on whether or not there is a supernatural being.
What you could do is define how a given supernatural being would manifest itself, and then science could detect if said manifestation is present.
Quote:
Here's the thing: anything that exists in this universe is subject to its physical laws. Everything, from ants to zebras, operates on a specific set of principles that are fundamental to the nature of our reality.
A 'supernatural' being, then, would not be able to maintain even the simplest atomic structure in our universe.
I compeletely disagree with that statement. In my opinion, the actual consequence of your statement is that a manifestation of a supernatural being in the universe would be indistinguishable from a natural phenomenon.
Let's say God chose to stop a tornado from destroying a certain house. Presumably, God would do this by changing physical properties of the atmosphere in the vicinity of the house in such a way as to divert the tornado. Would not those physical properties be observed to change in the same way as changing physical properties in every other case? In other words, if the temperature of a molecule in the atmosphere is raised by 1 degree centigrade, how would one determine if God raised the temperature, or if it raised from natural causes? In a chaotic system, the temperature of an object could be raised for any number of reasons.
Quote:
...it might not even have sensory systems capable of comprehending a three-dimensional universe. All of our perceptive capability depends on the three-dimensional nature of our universe; a supernatural being, that is not subject to our laws of physics, would probably not be able to make sense of what it sees, if it sees anything at all.
Well, if the supernatural being has an interest in our universe, presumably it would study it before manifesting itself here.
One of our biggest flaws as human beings is the belief in our own superiority and knowledge. We believe we understand the laws of nature but do we really? Just a while ago everyone swore that the earth was flat, flight was deemed a fantasy of the deluded, traveling to the moon was an idea of the insane etc. I can go on and on.
The point is what your saying is only applicable to what we know now. There is no way to disprove the existence of a supernatural being by what you stated because we are still a simple species with a rudimentary grasp of our total surroundings. We have barely even explored our own oceans. We will most likely not even explore 20% of our own galaxy in the next 10,000 years; let alone understand who or what exists in the entirety of the universe.
One of our biggest flaws as human beings is the belief in our own superiority and knowledge.
We believe we understand the laws of nature but do we really?
Just a while ago everyone swore that the earth was flat, flight was deemed a fantasy of the deluded,
traveling to the moon was an idea of the insane etc.
I can go on and on.
The point is what your saying is only applicable to what we know now.
There is no way to disprove the existence of a supernatural being by what you stated because we are
still a simple species with a rudimentary grasp of our total surroundings.
We have barely even explored our own oceans.
We will most likely not even explore 20% of our own galaxy in the next 10,000 years; let alone understand who
or what exists in the entirety of the universe.
Well, thank God for you...and you said it so kindly...I can't even respond to what I'm reading.
I know now this thread is in good hands.
Really, bless you...xxoo
Location: "Silicon Valley" (part of San Francisco Bay Area, California, USA)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by griffon652
There is no way to disprove the existence of a supernatural being by what you stated because we are still a simple species with a rudimentary grasp of our total surroundings.
By definition, there is no way to disprove the presence of a supernatural being. If said supernatural being manifested itself in the natural universe, said manifestation would necessarily have to follow the known laws of nature, since it is operating in nature.
For example one could examine a vampire, and determine that it is not a normal human, has great physical strength, is sensitive to ultraviolet light, and requires the consumption of blood to survive.
However, science could not prove or disprove whether it is evil or if it came from Hell or whatever. Those are spiritual matters beyond the purview of science or the ability of science to investigate.
OP, so let me ask you this. You have heard of "history", right?
Now, as you like to employ logic, logically, you will notice that human understanding of "universe" was nothing but an ever going change, correct?
Logically, it is absolutely foolish to think that somehow NOW we know EVERYTHING about "universe". And proof to it - read any journal or magazine dedicated to physics. Even Scientific American. What was cut in stone weeks ago is laughable theory today. What is cut in stone today will be... You got it, right?
So what exactly makes you believe that you have ANY right to make ANY judgement on things one knows nothing about, that can be fathomed only by metaphysics? As things beyond this universe, unpercievable by extensions of human senses called "instruments" can be fathomed only by the instrument of thinking?
Or, you are the kind that read few articles here and there, and became the one who ate all wisdoms in the world and knows it all?
You know, what Prince Siddhartha did for TWENTY ONE years? Before he became a Buddha? He meditated. He fathomed everything by the power of thought only. So start thinking, my friend, and it will be given onto thi.
Also, as a starter, you may read six proofs of God existence by an old man name Kant. THAT is a much better logic, than yours.
Be well.
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