The tribulations of HVAC in Phoenix (Scottsdale: appliances, how much, house)
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I've been thinking of this in general terms, and it's handy right now, as I see that my post asking about Champion is instead getting unrelated replies.
On top of my being so angry about my situation, where my air-conditioner unit is already no longer viable, from my point of view, since after 7 years (on a 10-year warranty) a repair would be more than half the cost of a new one, it really seems like this is rigged against the consumer. I think these aspects have been mentioned in passing in different posts, but maybe this will collect them in one place.
Here are some of the problems that strike me:
1. To get just an estimate on the repair, you probably have to fork over at least $100. Many companies won't even voluntarily tell you whether or not that initial cost will be applied toward the work or not. Some companies advertise "Free estimate!" but they don't tell you that's only if you're buying a new unit.
2. Most companies will refuse to provide you with their hourly rate, even if you sign on with them. This is not unusual, but it's all the more annoying because it hinders you from making comparison. Not that people would necessarily choose the cheapest, but it would certainly be a factor in making a choice.
3. Most companies seem to have particular brands they like, and I tend to feel they're not giving you a fair overview. And for many brands, there are "sub-brands," cheaper lines, and it's difficult to get a straight answer on how they differ, why the lesser name is cheaper.
4. Many techs shrug and tell you that brands are mostly all alike.
5. Air conditioning is particularly problematic, because it requires the refrigerant, which can get very expensive. I was amazed when a tech told me - the first time I'd ever heard this - that my particular model required a lot more refrigerant than many brands, almost twice as much, with no particular benefit, apparently. I'd never, never had anyone mention this as a possible factor when making a choice.
6. We're particularly over a barrel in metro-Phoenix because, for instance, if you had a sudden catastrophe at the beginning of that stretch of 110+ heat, it becomes literally a matter of life and death.
And, of course, most of us don't know what's going on, on the roof.
Since these guys mostly pretend they don't use an hourly rate, but make it "by the job," I'm going to experiment with asking the price of leak detection and see if I get a straight answer.
I feel your pain. I tried calling an HVAC guy in my old home and asked for a BALLPARK price for adding some freon (assuming that was the problem) and they hung up on me...Twice (I thought it was an error). lol
For this house, I bought a local service contract. They aren't perfect. But I pay a local company $50 a month and it covers my appliances, water heater, garbage disposal, and three air units. Our home is a 2017. I've had them out for my washer (new motor which would have cost $500). The air (3X times). They are coming out next week for my air again. Each call is a $75 co-pay. For about $100 more a year, I pay for sprinkler leak protection. I'm not in AZ for 4 months. So this service really helps. So $57 total a month. Frankly, I think it is a deal. Considering the other thread was talking about a $450 bill to replace a start-up capacitor.
No more rigamarole calling everyone in town to find someone who will give you a straight answer.
That said, I vaguely remember a brand that had freon leaking (crappy copper lines). What brand do you own? Google is your friend in situations like these.
Be very aware that many companies just want to sell you a new unit when it may not be necessary.
For example, our son, who lives in Scottsdale, has two AC units on a larger home.
Recently the one unit kept blowing the breaker that supplied the power so he called an HVAC company to come and look at the problem.
They in turn told him he needed a new AC unit and that cost would be some $10k! (must be nice to live in Scottsdale)
I asked him if the top cooling fan was running or not and if the unit cooled unit the breaker went out each time and he told me that the fan did run and the unit cooled just fine. He also told me that the breaker was going out faster as time went on.
I told him that all me might be dealing with was a breaker that was getting older or defective and was tripping at lower and lower amperage draws as time went on.
He told me that in a recent renovation they did that all the breaker were new. I told him that did not mean that the breaker wasn't defective when new anyway.
I spent a number of years as an electrical supervisor with a crew of some 25 people doing all types of work and ran into this type of problem many times.
I had shown him at one time how to safely change a breaker without turning power off to the entire house and he remembered how to do it.
I told him that for the cost of a breaker, around $15-25, that it might just fix his problem.
He changed the breaker out and his AC unit is running just fine now.
The company he selected, and that charged him $80 to misdiagnose the problem, just wanted to sell him a new unit. They should have checked the amperage draw on the breaker in the first place when checking for the problem and that is very easy to do with a clamp on meter. That would have told them the breaker was tripping too early.
My son called the company that did the diagnosis and got his $80 refunded.
Just saying, make sure you are dealing with a well repected company.
I've been thinking of this in general terms, and it's handy right now, as I see that my post asking about Champion is instead getting unrelated replies.
On top of my being so angry about my situation, where my air-conditioner unit is already no longer viable, from my point of view, since after 7 years (on a 10-year warranty) a repair would be more than half the cost of a new one, it really seems like this is rigged against the consumer. I think these aspects have been mentioned in passing in different posts, but maybe this will collect them in one place.
Here are some of the problems that strike me:
1. To get just an estimate on the repair, you probably have to fork over at least $100. Many companies won't even voluntarily tell you whether or not that initial cost will be applied toward the work or not. Some companies advertise "Free estimate!" but they don't tell you that's only if you're buying a new unit.
2. Most companies will refuse to provide you with their hourly rate, even if you sign on with them. This is not unusual, but it's all the more annoying because it hinders you from making comparison. Not that people would necessarily choose the cheapest, but it would certainly be a factor in making a choice.
3. Most companies seem to have particular brands they like, and I tend to feel they're not giving you a fair overview. And for many brands, there are "sub-brands," cheaper lines, and it's difficult to get a straight answer on how they differ, why the lesser name is cheaper.
4. Many techs shrug and tell you that brands are mostly all alike.
5. Air conditioning is particularly problematic, because it requires the refrigerant, which can get very expensive. I was amazed when a tech told me - the first time I'd ever heard this - that my particular model required a lot more refrigerant than many brands, almost twice as much, with no particular benefit, apparently. I'd never, never had anyone mention this as a possible factor when making a choice.
6. We're particularly over a barrel in metro-Phoenix because, for instance, if you had a sudden catastrophe at the beginning of that stretch of 110+ heat, it becomes literally a matter of life and death.
And, of course, most of us don't know what's going on, on the roof.
Since these guys mostly pretend they don't use an hourly rate, but make it "by the job," I'm going to experiment with asking the price of leak detection and see if I get a straight answer.
Have you contacted the company that installed your HVAC system? They should stand behind their products and their work, especially since your unit is still within warranty. If not, you need to find a highly reputable company, and I can assure you that they do exist. I also recommend purchasing a service contract. Most often, you’ll get better service, free semi annual inspections, and even discounts on repairs & new units if they’re needed. Even so, be aware of service techs who might be out to swindle you for additional or replacement parts you may not need. I learned many years ago to not give in to these so called "recommendations".
Also, what is the name brand of your unit? Seems like you might have a lemon on your hands because 7 years is WAY too soon to have major A/C issues, even in this climate. I purchased a Trane about 6 years ago, and (so far) it hasn’t given me any problems. It's always best to look into the top rated brands, even if you have to pay more, because cheap prices often equal cheaper quality.
I had my warranty guy out today. He explained that the HVAC industry is full of scammers. It's typical for someone in a nicer neighborhood to pay $5K more for the same installed unit. He had stories! He said it's a lot cheaper on the West side of town of PHX proper than say, Scottsdale.
I feel your pain. I tried calling an HVAC guy in my old home and asked for a BALLPARK price for adding some freon (assuming that was the problem) and they hung up on me...Twice (I thought it was an error). lol
For this house, I bought a local service contract. They aren't perfect. But I pay a local company $50 a month and it covers my appliances, water heater, garbage disposal, and three air units. Our home is a 2017. I've had them out for my washer (new motor which would have cost $500). The air (3X times). They are coming out next week for my air again. Each call is a $75 co-pay. For about $100 more a year, I pay for sprinkler leak protection. I'm not in AZ for 4 months. So this service really helps. So $57 total a month. Frankly, I think it is a deal. Considering the other thread was talking about a $450 bill to replace a start-up capacitor.
No more rigamarole calling everyone in town to find someone who will give you a straight answer.
That said, I vaguely remember a brand that had freon leaking (crappy copper lines). What brand do you own? Google is your friend in situations like these.
Actually, I don't think Google is my friend in anything anymore. Apart from the fact that I think Bing is far better - have you noticed how much harder it has become to research anything in recent years?
When you say "local service contract," I assume you're talking about one of those home warranty companies? One problem with those, for me, is that I think they use people they want instead of people I want. Even though financially that does sound like a reasonable deal.
My particular a/c is Carrier. The funny thing is the previous unit lasted 30 years, and this one probably needs to be chucked after only 7 years. Their customer service people were so awful - not just ignorant, but mis-informed/lying, too - that I wrote to complain.
Actually, I don't think Google is my friend in anything anymore. Apart from the fact that I think Bing is far better - have you noticed how much harder it has become to research anything in recent years?
When you say "local service contract," I assume you're talking about one of those home warranty companies? One problem with those, for me, is that I think they use people they want instead of people I want. Even though financially that does sound like a reasonable deal.
My particular a/c is Carrier. The funny thing is the previous unit lasted 30 years, and this one probably needs to be chucked after only 7 years. Their customer service people were so awful - not just ignorant, but mis-informed/lying, too - that I wrote to complain.
Yes. I notice it takes more digging to get to a local (non-paying) company.
I too have 3, Carrier units. All about 6 years old. When I said "Google is your friend", I was talking about searching for a problematic theme. Look for people complaining in a forum, etc. POSSIBLY, if you can show a trend, then you could get ahold of someone at Carrier asking for their help.
Based on my experience with Carrier, I won't ever buy one. They have been the most unreliable units in my close to 40 years of home ownership. FYI. The Techs all seem to blast Trane units. They have a lot more technology (and more things to go wrong).
Yes. I notice it takes more digging to get to a local (non-paying) company.
I too have 3, Carrier units. All about 6 years old. When I said "Google is your friend", I was talking about searching for a problematic theme. Look for people complaining in a forum, etc. POSSIBLY, if you can show a trend, then you could get ahold of someone at Carrier asking for their help.
Based on my experience with Carrier, I won't ever buy one. They have been the most unreliable units in my close to 40 years of home ownership. FYI. The Techs all seem to blast Trane units. They have a lot more technology (and more things to go wrong).
That's funny, I've had the exact opposite experience. I guess results really do vary.
Based on my experience with Carrier, I won't ever buy one. They have been the most unreliable units in my close to 40 years of home ownership.
My last HVAC unit was a Carrier, and it lasted 12 years with few problems. The one before that: also a Carrier, which required numerous repairs, but it was also serviced by a different company. That alone can make a difference. A service tech from that other company talked me into installing a hard start kit, and it turned out to be a big mistake. It caused the outside compressor unit to make a rough grinding sound upon starting, and it actually damaged the compressor. This is a good example of why it's not a good idea to accept every "recommendation" for additional parts or repairs which are probably not even needed.
I feel your pain. I tried calling an HVAC guy in my old home and asked for a BALLPARK price for adding some freon (assuming that was the problem) and they hung up on me...Twice (I thought it was an error). lol
For this house, I bought a local service contract. They aren't perfect. But I pay a local company $50 a month and it covers my appliances, water heater, garbage disposal, and three air units. Our home is a 2017. I've had them out for my washer (new motor which would have cost $500). The air (3X times). They are coming out next week for my air again. Each call is a $75 co-pay. For about $100 more a year, I pay for sprinkler leak protection. I'm not in AZ for 4 months. So this service really helps. So $57 total a month. Frankly, I think it is a deal. Considering the other thread was talking about a $450 bill to replace a start-up capacitor.
No more rigamarole calling everyone in town to find someone who will give you a straight answer.
That said, I vaguely remember a brand that had freon leaking (crappy copper lines). What brand do you own? Google is your friend in situations like these.
Google hasn't been my friend in much, I feel that a lot of sketchy scammy companies know perfectly well how to do search engine optimization, and it's been hard to find honest companies to do things that need done. I can find pages where customers complain about particular products or companies, but it's hard to vet in the other direction to find out who is GOOD.
And you can't even trust the reviews. I had a company send two young people out to try and sell be a bunch of bull when I was considering a small bathroom remodel project, one of them attempted to forcibly break a fixture in my bathroom while saying, "see this was poorly done in the first place..." but despite his yanking, it didn't actually break, so not that bad I guess. The other told us she was psychic and was communicating with a relative who had died in the house. I am not even kidding. And they offered to knock a few thousand off the (absurdly high) price of the (very low quality) product they wanted to sell me, if I'd go online that day, before they left, and write positive reviews of their company. Like right then and there before any work had even begun. Trying to bribe me to leave fake positive reviews.
Of course I sent them packing. But such experiences have been pretty discouraging. To say nothing of the HVAC guys who, without telling my father in law they were doing so, cut a section out of a truss in the attic to put in a new air handler, and then attached it incorrectly up there... It's just bananas.
I'm very interested in what company you go through for that service contract. I sent you a message.
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