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My long time girlfriend (future wife) and I are considering relocating to Phoenix (Scottsdale) from South Tampa within the next 2-5 years. The timeframe is so long because we just bought a nice new construction house here one year ago and would like some time to enjoy it and let the price appreciate (prices are soaring in this area)
I’m 34 and she is 25, we plan on starting a family in 3 years. She works a corporate job and I own a business that is completely location-independent. She will stop working (at least until the kids are grown) once we have kids. The business generates high income, so I refuse to live in any high tax state. I moved to FL 4 years ago for the sunshine, reasonable COL, and 0% state income tax. I have traveled the entire country extensively and the only other place I can see myself living is Scottsdale (and maybe some adjacent areas of which I am unaware). Arizona is a low tax environment. The state income tax is annoying but tolerable and property taxes are lower.
While I love South Tampa (there is nowhere else I would live in FL other than maybe downtown St Pete - Old Northeast / Brightwaters area), my girlfriend thinks it feels sort of urban and ghetto in parts, and that it’s not very pretty. I notice this as well. There are multimillion dollar mansions and breathtaking areas, but right next to them there will be a trailer park that’s been there for 100 years or some ancient house with an unkempt yard that looks like Jurassic Park. There are billboards and seedy strip club / pawn shop style businesses all along the main drag, Dale Mabry. Tattoo shops, bars full of leathery old deviant people etc. We live in a nice area a block away from the water and Bayshore Blvd, but it’s still impossible not to run into this every day. The crappy areas are integrated with the nice ones. Call me a snob, but I would prefer to have a “bubble” of awesome around me most of the time instead.
I would also like to raise kids in a sort of idyllic, clean suburban environment that’s still close enough to restaurants, entertainment, and amenities so I don’t get bored. This sounds to me like Scottsdale. I’ve visited several times and this is the feeling I have. I plan to make a serious multi-day visit with the intent to scope the place out very soon. My girlfriend wants an area where we can interact with other young-ish families instead of the highly diverse mix you get in a city of this size. I think that’s fine, but I also don’t want to be off in some tract home development losing my mind from boredom, and I also want a really nice house and I’m not sure how many young families will be buying homes in this price range.
I need sunlight and warmth. Scottsdale has more sunlight and warmth-wise I would say the winter is colder than Tampa but absolutely still bearable...I wouldn’t even mind a month or two of chilly. So we have to live in the Sun Belt. Haven’t seen anything in AL, GA, TN, NC, SC, TX, NM, MS, LA that really struck me, and SoCal is out due to the cost, taxes and politics.
My favorite activity is hiking and camping, and ironically FL has none of this. It’s fine because flights are cheap and I can be at any hiking destination within hours if I choose (and I often do), but it hit me the other day that if we lived in Scottsdale, all the best hiking in the US would be a short road trip away. We could take family camping trips to Zion, Grand Canyon, Yosemite, Death Valley, Joshua Tree, Bryce, Moab, even all the stuff in Colorado relatively easily, and driving would be easier with a young family than flying. The outdoor activities here consist of water sports and fishing. Fishing is a lot of fun and I enjoy it from time to time. I also like to paddle board and kayak sometimes, and we have a boat club membership where we can take out a small deck boat whenever we like. The thing is, I actually prefer lakes. The defined boundaries and lack of waves put me at ease...the ocean gives me slight anxiety and I would never own a boat or yacht here. Both of us are more land-oriented or lake-oriented. My girlfriend does not really like beaches. I do, but there’s only so many times you can go to one and sit there before it gets sort of boring.
We could sell our current house for $750k, but by the time we would make a move to AZ my financial situation will have improved and we would probably look in the $500k-$1.5M range. It’s a big range, but if we see something that meets our needs there is no need to overpay for it. Needs 4-5 bedrooms and 3 baths minimum, 3000sqft minimum, prefer modern homes. Definitely needs a pool and 3 car garage. Has to be within a short drive to amenities and shopping. I’ve seen some properties that are just barren desert and I prefer the ones with a bit more greenery. Fruit trees and succulents, maybe some grass.
I am pretty sold on Scottsdale, but have also come across the names of Paradise Valley and Arcadia in my research. Pros/cons of each?
Also school-wise, I have heard some negative things about Phoenix public schools. I am not a huge fan of public schools in general as I went to one of the better public schools in the nation and feel like I learned absolutely nothing and was much worse off than my private school friends. I know AZ is a red state, but the amount of brainwashing that goes on in public schools still worries me. We are conservative but not religious. We don’t want a school that has religious education (other than studying it in an academic context) although a religious affiliation is not necessarily any issue. Phoenix Country Day School (top private school nearby) seems to be highly regarded and isn’t religiously affiliated, but I did find a disturbing article about them teaching young children about the 58 (or whatever number it is now) “genders”. Google “Phoenix country day school genderbread man” and you can see. Not sure if this was just a freak incident or a rogue teacher, or if this is indicative of the quality of the school. Is anyone familiar with this school, or can anyone recommend other top notch private schools?
Do I have any blind spots here that would preclude a move to Scottsdale? This is a huge life change, commitment, and financial burden so I would hate to move there and find that my research was wrong, my assumptions were false, and that there were significant unknown negatives that will make us worse off than now (we are really happy now).
What specific areas of Scottsdale (or others) should I look into when I visit?
Has anyone made the same move or at least a move from FL that can comment? It does seem like the people in Scottsdale are higher quality in general. Reminds us more of our childhoods (we both grew up in affluent suburbs. We were lower or lower middle class but happened to live there).
I think you would like Scottsdale a lot based one what you have written. The public schools in Scottsdale are good but one huge difference with the east is the Arizona is heavily dependent on charter schools so there is some more choice. Look into the basis charter schools.
I like Central Scottsdale, around Cactus and the 101, also the Shea corridor. My favorite part of Scottsdale is the large lot area just East of Arcadia and West of Old Town Scottsdale but that may push the budget. Also consider Arcadia itself (Phoenix).
If you prefer the mountains and desert, North of Bell Rd will have what you want. Keep in mind after you have kids you will likely want other things out of a house as you realize what kids want/need as far as space and may end up moving again to find those things.
I’ve heard PV is amazing but does my budget really get me in there? Also does the age not skew quite old? I read 53 years median age. It’s like 34 here in south tampa. Higher than that into the lower 40s is probably fine, but I once lived in an area with an average age of 58 and it was incredibly depressing.
I’ve heard PV is amazing but does my budget really get me in there? Also does the age not skew quite old? I read 53 years median age. It’s like 34 here in south tampa. Higher than that into the lower 40s is probably fine, but I once lived in an area with an average age of 58 and it was incredibly depressing.
It's hard to find houses in PV for less than a million. I've seen rather dingy houses with a PV address at 1M before. I think solely because it has a PV address. Sort of the Phoenix standard 70s sprawling single story ranch, just waiting for someone to tear it down and build something new I'm sure. All for the land...
Arizona has a state income tax but I think all states get you one another. Texas has no income tax... but they have a high property tax. Oregon has no sales tax... but look at their income tax. Arizona doesn't have any toll roads... but a $700+ registration fee... I can go on. But I feel based on my comparison with other states Arizona is still a pretty low tax burden. Arizona I think has a better tax system. A little bit here, a little bit there... rather than none here and all there.
If you really want no income tax, you are looking at the wrong state. You would need Nevada. Vegas has nice suburbs, no different than here really. Honestly being born and raised I can't tell much of a difference between Vegas and Phoenix driving around at the end of the day. Houses look the same, suburbs are built the same... you make enough money to put kids in private school anyway so the public school system is a wash, neither of us are that good.
Arizona is a low overall tax burden. It’s not as low as Florida, especially for high income earners thanks to FL’s 0% income tax, but it is tolerable and I’m not going to throw too much of a fit over it unless it starts being raised. AZ’s income tax is higher, property taxes are lower. I would be fine with it if it means my kids get a more traditional childhood. There is not really a Scottsdale equivalent here - everything is all mixed together. The house to one side of mine looks like it should be condemned and is a million years old in disrepair with overgrown everything. The house to the other side was built a month ago and sold for $800k. It’s very diverse in that way, but honestly I couldn’t care less. I grew up lower / lower middle class and don’t feel like exposing my kids to that.
I like Central Scottsdale, around Cactus and the 101, also the Shea corridor.
Me too. I liked it so much I moved here. Stores, restaurants and other conveniences are five minutes away. We get around pretty well, either on FLW or the 101. I'm impressed with how well streets are maintained here.
OP, my husband and I are also conservative but not religious. It's not a problem. We run into religious people from time to time but they don't proselytize.
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If you prefer the mountains and desert, North of Bell Rd will have what you want. Keep in mind after you have kids you will likely want other things out of a house as you realize what kids want/need as far as space and may end up moving again to find those things.
Our agent told us a house north of the Loop would be more desirable than the house we ended up buying. He may be right. But we really didn't want to drive 15 minutes just to go grocery shopping and then get home to realize there was something we forgot to get.
Our place is not xeriscaped. There are many trees and shrubs as well as a large lawn. We have a number of citrus trees, which are common here. So you can get that if you want it. We do all the yard work ourselves but if we didn't it would run $500/month for a landscaping service.
We bought a non-HOA place, which may or may not factor into your thinking. And if there's any chance you will want an RV and a garage in which to keep it, you can get that but it will narrow your choices of homes considerably.
First of all... you could have used far fewer words... I nodded off twice while reading your original post.
I always muse (always!) when people assume this or that, income will continue rising, the Mrs will cough out a couple of kidlets, home will continue going up in value, etc. One thing life has taught me is the moment you think you know what your future holds you get your azz handed to you by a surprise event.
But let’s say your crystal ball is fully functioning. Scottsdale, especially north Scottsdale is very unique in that there is virtually no slum or ghetto. Most of the developments are gated and/or have strict enough HOA’s that blight and living next to the Clampetts isn’t a concern.(Their OLD house, not the new one!)
Arcadia is wonderful if you like an urban feel. For a rural lush landscape vibe try Pinnacle Peak Country Club. Not quite the mature, lush greenery as Arcadia but close and very convenient to beautiful hiking trails that aren’t absurdly busy like Camelback and Squaw Peak. (Yes; I said Squaw.) And you’re only 10 minutes from Kierland and the northern heart of Scottsdale. A lot of the geezers in PP CC are dying off or getting shipped out to senior living camps; lots of younger families moving in. DC and McDowell Mtn Ranch are also beautiful and not so far out that you feel isolated.
Best of luck with your plan. A week long immersion trip would be highly beneficial.
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