Cost of Living: Philly Suburbs vs Pgh? (Pittsburgh, Lebanon: sale, leases)

[TravelSheila]

We're considering a move to Pittsburgh from the western suburbs of Philly and I'm at a loss in trying to figure out the *reality* of the cost of living (COL) in each place.

The online COL calculators vary widely for the 2 cities. They say the housing is anywhere between 20-48% less in Pitt and I just don't see it when searching for a similar home (4 bedroom, 3 car garage, 3/4 acre) on realtor.com, Zillow, or HowardHanna . Granted I'm searching in school districts in North Hills with better reputations and considering Mt. Lebanon too, for the same reason... But 50% less? I just don't see it! I see 10% savings at most...

Is there anyone out there who's relo'd from the Phila area to Pitt who can attest to the reality of how much cheaper it is to live there? If so, in what ways do you save (insurance? services?)?

The Pgh company is offering 10% salary reduction on the argument that the cost of living is cheaper. But one known additional expense is the cost of parking in the business district (is $20/day a good estimate??) of Pgh vs. the free parking we have here... It would be nice to have "real" numbers to go on to make a more informed decision.

If you're not sure about the COL comparison of these cities but know of reliable cost of living comparison resources, I'd appreciate those tips as well. Thanks!

[bradjl2009]

Parking isn't $20 a day but more like $15 at most with the parking authority lots at $11 or $12 at most but that may be going up soon. Here's more on the mayor's idea of privatizing parking Pittsburgh sale of parking rights gives buyers lots of options. About your housing prices, are you looking at new or older house? Newer homes here are more comparable in cost but older houses are cheaper and in not bad shape and houses within the city limits are inexpensive also.

[greg42]

Well, if you don't see it, I think that's probably a better reality than the calculators. Of course, keep in mind that the listing price may not have much bearing on what it actually sells for. I checked the listing of the house three doors down that just went on the market a couple weeks ago, insane price. I'd be surprised if they get even 20k less than that, even 30k less would be a good price, and we're talking a house that's under $200k. I have to think the agent begrudgingly let them put it at that price. Either that or I'm in for a windfall when I sell.

Anyway, the other thing to keep in mind, and I'm not saying you're not doing this but you do have to be honest with it for the proper comparison, is that when comparing the pricing it must be truly apples to apples. This means not just same size house and lot but same time for commuting, same class of school district and so on. Also, one more thought is that the buildable land is probably at a bit more premium out here with the hills! (I dunno how flat it is in your current area, but I think I can reasonably guess that it's flatter than here.) When you start looking for 3/4 acre lots, it pushes the price up over those that are on smaller lots. So I could see that land issue as negating some of the price difference. But that is just a rough guess. If you're sure all of these are the same or even better on your current end, then we'll have to just accept that in this particular class of house the difference is smaller. The general numbers that say it's x% less come from a wide variety of housing types as an aggregate. Could be skewed a lot if the top end is much cheaper here, for instance, or just a supply/demand here vs there currently, among other reasons.

Parking. $15/day should be absolute max. And you can probably do better depending upon where precisely you are talking about and how much you are willing to walk or take a shuttle. If you know 100% certain you're going to drive every day then you can just do a monthly lease which should cut your cost a bit more. But, even if it's 10 bucks a day that's still $200/month. (I don't think there are garage leases below that in downtown anymore.) This is not insignificant.

[TravelSheila]

Thanks to you both! I appreciate the input.

It dawned on me after writing my plea for help that I was comparing our current school district, which is "good" to those in Pgh area which are "great" (based on Pgh Business Times 2010 Western PA & Statewide Rankings). May I just say "duh" - major flaw in my logic! So I searched for comparably ranked schools in my region and the 40% mark is about right. So please disregard the housing portion of my question! You get a significantly better quality education for much less $ in the Pittsburgh area. I'm jealous!

I didn't realize you could rent a parking spot in downtown. That's something to consider depending on where we commute from. The "T" from Mt. Lebo sounds like a nice alternative if we were to live there. We clocked the drive from downtown to Mt. Lebo at 10 mins during a weekday but I'm sure in rush hour it would be a lot more. I wonder what the commute is for those who take the "T"? I've heard it's a "walkable town" but I guess there are some who park at a Park 'n Ride lot somewhere for a fee? I wonder how that compares to just paying for parking in the city.

We'd rather purchase an existing home than new construction for sure. We drove through North Hills and Mt. Lebanon and liked the developments with mature trees and/or the classic tudor look that we hear Pittsburgh is known for.

I am curious about how the rest of the daily living costs compare, if anyone has insight? I know that might be a hard one to quantify. Can't hurt to ask!

Thanks again!

[BrianTH]

Edit: this post was about housing and was mooted.

I'll just add--definitely shop around for parking leases Downtown. For such a small area they can vary quite a bit.

[TravelSheila]

Oh, I thought you summed it up well... bigger, newer, more garage, better district, all = more $$. Good way of putting it... something simple I can remember. haha
Thx!

Good to know about parking leases too... I'm learning a lot here.

[BrianTH]

Most (all?) of the park and ride lots are free--but get there early in the South Hills!

(Edit: So poking around I see the South Hills Village Garage is $2/day, $22/month . . . but they say it has 2200 spaces and parking is available all day. End edit.)

Park and Ride Lots

When you add up the costs of parking, gas and mileage, and so forth, if there is a convenient park and ride you can use it is easily going to come ahead on costs (unless you carpool like four or more people).

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by TravelSheila

Oh, I thought you summed it up well... bigger, newer, more garage, better district, all = more $$. Good way of putting it... something simple I can remember. haha

I'm sorry I deleted it! But you've got the idea now.

[greg42]

Yeah, maybe 10 minutes drive with no traffic, to the closest points of Mt Lebanon. Even that feels like a stretch but with zero traffic it probably can be done. I think the T ride even is in the vicinity of 25 minutes or so, and driving at rush hour would take, eh, probably same, half an hour, could be more on really bad days or again depending upon just where in Mt Lebanon you start from. This may push in favor of the T if it works for you even if travel time is the same because it would be cheaper than parking and you wouldn't actually have to sit in the traffic.

Although I'm sure you're already somewhat versed in PA property taxes, taxes are higher in Mt Lebo, to my knowledge, than most/all places in N. Hills area. Not sure which districts you're looking at up there. May or may not be significant enough to influence your decision.

Other daily living costs, it's tough. I have heard that food costs a little more here than some places. Gas? Dunno. You can probably look that one up though. Other consumer goods? I'd be surprised if those came to a significant difference. Utilities? Maybe a little more here for some.

[BrianTH]

I beieve we actually have below-average grocery and utility costs, although obviously utility costs are highly variable on a personal level. Transportation costs are above average, and health care costs are also below average.

Edit: Oops, bad memory: groceries are a bit below average, but utilities are above average:

http://www.alleghenyconference.org/P...2009Annual.pdf

But maybe shale gas will do something about those utility bills.