Dormont (Pittsburgh, Columbia, Lawrenceville: hardwood floors, for sale, real estate)

[Copanut]

Restonrunner,

I agree to some of your points, but what you are describing can easily be found in Dormont, Beechview, Mt. Lebo and all points along the T. And that's all in the suburbs. Until the City of Pittsburgh becomes fiscally responsible, I will continue to support by paying outrageous parking prices when I take in the arts.

I park for free at Bucco games, but I'm not telling.

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by Copanut

Restonrunner,

I agree to some of your points, but what you are describing can easily be found in Dormont, Beechview, Mt. Lebo and all points along the T. And that's all in the suburbs. Until the City of Pittsburgh becomes fiscally responsible, I will continue to support by paying outrageous parking prices when I take in the arts.

I park for free at Bucco games, but I'm not telling.

I'm sorry if I came off as being unnecessarily harsh towards the suburbs, but after having grown up in them and now still living in one at age 23 I'm just very miserable. I apologize again for being so bitter. Most move to the 'burbs for "better schools", "lower crime", or a "bigger home/lot." Otherwise I really don't see what they offer that is so superior to the city, especially for non-family types, and I even think inner-city neighborhoods like Squirrel Hill and Shadyside offer a superior quality-of-life for raising children than the car-dependent outer 'burbs, where car accidents are a much bigger risk. I think I'd be much happier in a place like Mt. Washington, Lawrenceville, or Mexican War Streets as opposed to Cranberry Twp. or outer Mt. Lebanon. I just get angry because Pittsburgh's housing stock is gorgeous, but it is largely rotting to the core while people continue to build new homes in the 'burbs. The city will never improve until more people "take the plunge", move in, fix up homes, restore the tax base, and get things heading into the right direction again. I want to do that. I'd even consider Wilkinsburg or McKees Rocks since it seems like those places need all the help they can get from people not afraid to roll up their sleeves, get their hands dirty, and ruffle some feathers to bring some pride back to those communities.

[Copanut]

But there simply is not ENOUGH people to do that. Some of the areas you name like Mt. Washington, were never that great to begin with, only the homes with a view were high end. Lawrenceville, quite frankly, most of the row houses are crap, they were thrown up so those working in the mills could get to work quickly. Don't want to be a Debby Downer, but when people talk about restoring certain areas, it just ain't gonna happen.

Now excuse me, I have a wine tasting party to attend.

[BrianTH]

I just don't understand being bored in a metro area of over 2 million people. Any such metro area--not just Pittsburgh. Any city like that I have known, there is tons of different stuff going on all the time.

Anyway, recently there have not been enough people, but watch what happens if the core population gets on a low growth path. People per household are down a lot since Pittsburgh's peak, and neighborhoods will get transformed faster than some long-time Pittsburgh residents are expecting.

[Blackbeauty212]

Of course Brian - I'm already shocked at places like Lawrenceville, East Liberty, Garfield/Friendship (Penn Av Arts) and how fast even in this the "GREAT Recession" are redefining themselves....Could you imagine where they'd be if there was no recession to speak of....Oh my...

and the city has so much Gentrification going on at once....Yea every city you have 1 -2 hot neighborhood reinventing themselves and attract massive attention....But Pittsburgh has

Downtown
Lawrenceville.
East Liberty
Penn Av Arts
South Side
North Side
The Strip
Bloomfield
Regent Square

are all well underway in redefining themselves, all at one time, in the Recession...This is unheard of...

Then you have the already established hot beds that just continue to flourish..

Shadyside
Squirrel Hill
Point Breeze
Mt Leb
Highland Park
Oakland

and the soon to come online sleepers..

Uptown
Mt Washington
Wilkinsburg

How can anyone with any credibility say that city with this much reinventing going on, is boring......That just escapes me.

[Denton56]

It's amazing that people don't understand why people prefer the suburbs with lower crime, better schools, and a bigger house with a bigger lot for the money.

EVERY city has neighborhoods that are being gentrified. DC is filled with them, so is NOVA. Pittsburgh is not unique in that regard. Don't get me wrong, I like Pittsburgh. But I wouldn't move there to find a cheap home in need of repair. Those can be found everywhere, including the DC suburbs and the city.

[Denton56]

Originally Posted by RestonRunner86

I concur. I've never been bored while vacationing in Pittsburgh.

Every city is interesting for a few weeks.

[Denton56]

Originally Posted by Copanut

But there simply is not ENOUGH people to do that. Some of the areas you name like Mt. Washington, were never that great to begin with, only the homes with a view were high end. Lawrenceville, quite frankly, most of the row houses are crap, they were thrown up so those working in the mills could get to work quickly. Don't want to be a Debby Downer, but when people talk about restoring certain areas, it just ain't gonna happen.

Now excuse me, I have a wine tasting party to attend.

Many young people think it will so romantic to live in an old row house until they find out that these homes were built for working people who didn't have cars. The reality of these homes is not so romantic. The rooms are very small, and only one small bathroom. The kitchens are tiny, with wiring that won't handle their electronics, no garage and little parking on the street. It's no fun lugging groceries in the rain/snow/sleet from 3 blocks away because that's the closest parking space you can find. People who want to renovate don't realize that they can't find plumbing replacement parts for plumbing installed in 1920. Closets don't exist or are very tiny. Windows can't be raised, or if they are raised, they're impossible to close and the cold wind whistles right through them. Fireplaces are clogged with decades of creosote and don't work. Roofs leak and basements are wet. There is NO air conditioning which makes spending all your weekends and vacations working on your old house much less pleasant. It's not unusual for it to be 90+ degrees inside, day and night. Neighbors are so close by that you listen to their dog bark all day and their babies cry all night. Or you deal with their thumping base all night. If you plant rose bushes people steal the roses, or the tomatoes, or whatever you try to plant. Next door is the crazy old lady who shouts obscenities at anyone who passes by. On the other side are 3 immigrant families in one small house with 6 screaming children and three pick up trucks that park in front of YOUR house so you have nowhere to park. People wake you up at 2:00 as they walk by, shouting drunk, and throw trash in your yard. You wake up because you have to have the windows open, no AC. Your electrical system can't handle even a window unit. Of course you're going to replace ALL of that, as soon as you can, but you work all day. During the day you must shut the windows or worry about break-ins, while your house heats up to well over 100 degrees in July and August. But hey, you can walk to a restaurant, as long as it's not night and you're not walking alone.

Been there, done that, and after two years, couldn't wait to get back to a nice quiet townhouse in the suburbs, with no crime, many places to park, central air conditioning, modern plumbing that always worked, large closets and storage, a kitchen big enough to eat in, 2 and half bathrooms and even a dishwasher! Yes, I had to drive to the store down the street, and to restaurants but I always knew that when I got home I could park, and I wouldn't be afraid to walk from my car into my house. No drunks and rarely did I find any trash in my yard.

There are reasons why families move to the suburbs as soon as they can afford to. It's a MUCH more comfortable life for them!

[Blackbeauty212]

Originally Posted by Denton56

It's amazing that people don't understand why people prefer the suburbs with lower crime, better schools, and a bigger house with a bigger lot for the money.

EVERY city has neighborhoods that are being gentrified. DC is filled with them, so is NOVA. Pittsburgh is not unique in that regard. Don't get me wrong, I like Pittsburgh. But I wouldn't move there to find a cheap home in need of repair. Those can be found everywhere, including the DC suburbs and the city.

DC - as we were discussing is a bigger city, that people are flocking to because of the low employment via the government.....It's like NYC its not gentrifying because of neighborhood appeal and reinvention...it's gentrifying because of accommodation or lack there of because its being overrun by transplants...

Cities of Pittsburgh's peer doesnt not have the rapid multi-neighborhood gentrification that this city is experiencing...again it cause those cities to sit up a hold Pittsburgh up as a model city.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Denton56

It's amazing that people don't understand why people prefer the suburbs with lower crime, better schools, and a bigger house with a bigger lot for the money.

Sure, but there is often a significant price to be paid: higher household transportation costs; longer commutes meaning less time for leisure/family; needing to drive to everything, and longer drives to major amenities; greater physical safety risk to children (car accidents being the leading physical safety risk to children in the U.S.); less diversity, not just in ethnic terms but in terms of class, culture, age, and so on; greater environmental "footprints"; and so on. Moreover, some of those things, like better schools, are not a necessary advantage of living in suburbs, but more a contingency of recent U.S. urban history.

To be clear, I'm not one to say no one should live in traditional post-WII masterplanned suburbs. But I'm glad my family doesn't live in one, and other people are as well.

EVERY city has neighborhoods that are being gentrified. DC is filled with them, so is NOVA. Pittsburgh is not unique in that regard. Don't get me wrong, I like Pittsburgh. But I wouldn't move there to find a cheap home in need of repair. Those can be found everywhere, including the DC suburbs and the city.

But the pricing is RADICALLY different. Even after adjusting for somewhat higher incomes in DC, housing in nice historic walkable central neighborhoods in Pittsburgh is WAY WAY cheaper than in DC. Trust me, I was working in DC until a couple years ago and we were looking at the possibility of moving down there, and we looked all over DC for housing options. The price for the sort of neighborhoods and housing we like was a multiple of at least 3-4 times as much as it would be in Pittsburgh, potentially more.