Is it time for the city of Pittsburgh to privatize school and get rid of school taxes? (Penn: homes, purchase)

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Hopes

The reality is the voucher system will mostly benefit the wealthy who are already paying to send their children to private schools anyway.

And also people who would be choosing religious schools anyway.

There are definitely families in need of better school options that fall outside these categories, but it is tough to target them.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Hopes

Capacity could be addressed via vouchers being used for other school districts, not just private schools.

I think that idea has promise even if you don't generally allow vouchers for any sort of school.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

It is a little complicated--they can remove certain funding categories from the per student calculation, and they can also get temporary state assistance. Whether all that does enough to protect traditional schools districts is a different matter.

All I know is that the school district handed over the entire per student calculation when I used the charter system once.

Originally Posted by BrianTH

There are definitely families in need of better school options that fall outside these categories, but it is tough to target them.

The only way to target them would be via income and need. That would be impoverished, special education, victims, etc. But then the middle class gets screwed again if their children aren't learning disabled or victims.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I think that idea has promise even if you don't generally allow vouchers for any sort of school.

It would be easy too. School districts already accept students from other schools if the parents are willing to pay. The voucher would simply make it easier for more parents to switch their students to another school. But do we really need the voucher system for that? Wouldn't a county school system accomplish the same thing? That scares me because I believe a county school system would water down education in all districts based on the experiences of friends who live in areas with county schools.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Hopes

All I know is that the school district handed over the entire per student calculation when I used the charter system once.

The law is available as a PDF link near the top here:

Charter School Funding

The key part:

For non-special education students, the charter school shall receive for each student enrolled no less than the budgeted total expenditure per average daily membership of the prior school year, as defined in section 2501(20), minus the budgeted expenditures of the district of residence for nonpublic school programs; adult education programs; community/junior college programs; student transportation services; for special education programs; facilities acquisition, construction and improvement services; and other financing uses, including debt service and fund transfers as provided in the Manual of Accounting and Related Financial Procedures for Pennsylvania School Systems established by the department. This amount shall be paid by the district of residence of each student.

I assume they complied with this law, but all those exclusions can add up (to what percentage of the overall budget depends on the district).

The only way to target them would be via income and need. That would be impoverished, special education, victims, etc. But then the middle class gets screwed again if their children aren't learning disabled or victims.

This is more or less why I prefer robust charter programs. You provide school choice for everyone, but avoid subsidizing high-tuition or religious private schools.

[Hopes]

Curtis inspired interesting conversation after all! (Who knew?)

It's been interesting discussing this Brian.

But it's 2:12am! I have to go to bed or I'll be useless tomorrow.

Have a great night!

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Hopes

It would be easy too. School districts already accept students from other schools if the parents are willing to pay. The voucher would simply make it easier for more parents to switch their students to another school. But do we really need the voucher system for that?

I don't actually know much about how interdistrict schooling works in PA. I'm pretty sure it is voluntary (meaning school districts have to opt in), but I think there might be a standard formula for cost-sharing, which would indeed imply a voucher per se isn't necessary.

Wouldn't a county school system accomplish the same thing? That scares me because I believe a county school system would water down education in all districts based on the experiences of friends who live in areas with county schools.

As I recall in a forum discussion a while back, someone came up with a four-district plan for Allegheny County, which struck me as reasonable.

There is a lot of literature on school district size, and it isn't very conclusive as I recall. I do strongly suspect we have way too many in Allegheny County, but that doesn't mean just one would be ideal either.

Edit: Good night to you too!

[North Beach Person]

Originally Posted by Hopes

I doubt it. Look at that link I posted in response to Katiana's post.

A friend of mine who lives in Maryland has to pay for her children's textbooks and busing even though Maryland's constutiton says "FREE public schools." Pennsylvania's just says public.

That newspaper article I just posted mentioned a school district in Ohio where parents have to pay for their children to take non-core classes.

Ohio's constitution doesn't say "free" just public --- the "public" funds are for establishing, administering and control of the state school system. Think about that. That means that parents could be charged tuition. Establishing, administering and controlling isn't the same as completely funding.

Which system is that? Our last MD Attorney General interpretation, last year, was that transportation and consumables could not be charged for. This was in response to a proposal to charge for out of attendance zone transport to magnet schools. The business departments wanted to charge for workbooks.

At my school some teachers do purchase and resell AP review books, but there is SOR money for students who can't afford the $10 or so for them.

MD does not provide transportation to private schools.

This is what happens when you don't read all the posts when responding to just one:

Special Ed already has a sort of voucher system. If a particular system can't meet the needs of a student the federal IDEA requires the system find placement for that student elsewhere.

County systems are incredibly inefficient when you have a variety of differences in a system. The focus goes to the poor schools and the good ones are ignored. You still have attendance areas so kids don't switch much. The only functionary you get rid of is the superintendent, all the other Assistant to the Associate___________ and the Associate to the Assistant___________, etc. remain and their numbers actually increase.

[gg]

Originally Posted by Hopes

You don't solve it by closing the schools.

Last I checked the city of Pittsburgh closed a bunch of schools and probably more to come.

[gg]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

The necessary thoughts to get to "no":

Public schools are for the benefit of children, including those children whose parents/guardians are unwilling or unable to pay for private schools. Public schools are also crucial to modern economies and civil societies. Therefore we must provide public schools wherever children live, including the City. QED.

Most people are capable of generating those thoughts on their own, without help. But if such help is needed, there you go.

These are valid points. If a child goes to private school the time constraints on parents would be the same.

I do want to point out this idea doesn't mean there is no assistance from government for schools. There can be a sliding scale and not so black and white. Costs obviously would go way down if schools were private, due to no unions.

Just exploring the idea. Doesn't mean people need to make it so extreme to prove some point. I am not baiting people. Seems people think I think it is a good idea. I stated I have no real opinion on this matter. Never really thought about it much, but wanted to explore the idea. Not sure why people have to jump all over me thinking about something.