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What happens when a kid steal the gun out of the teachers desk and shoots himself.
The gun lobby will tell you that no kid could possibly steal the gun in the teachers desk and harm anyone, once we arm the principal with a bazooka. And while we're at it let's give all the bus drivers a nice little Glock pistol. Hey why stop there? Surely there must be a little gun that your first grader can tote around in their backpack.
Absolutely. I'm shocked at how many people still won't give up their "right" to have automatic weapons no matter how many people die. Their solution is always to arm even more citizens, as if this will make us all safer. Enough of this Wild West horse***t. People (or at least our lawmakers) need to start to see reason. I'm not sure how many more deaths it will take- 100? 1,000? 10,000? Kids? Infants? What will end this mentality in the U.S?
Sorry, I've hit my tolerance limit with this issue. I hope I'm not the only one.
Your condition isn't unique. It seems as though the public in general is pretty myopic about murder, firearms, and the media.
I wish our country was full of people like Hopes who, in post number 10 pointed out that this is part of living in society. Hopes is obviouslycapable of independent thought. Critical thinking seems to be a victim of society and in short supply, so I'll restate what Hopes pointed out that most short sighted people seem to either miss or ignore. Hopes wrote,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopes
Check out the overall history of school shootings in the US:
It started as early as the 1700s.
There were 10 in the 1800s.
There were 21 from 1900 to 1930.
There were 12 in the 1940s alone.
The 1950s was busy with 19.
Things started to slow down in the 1960s with 12.
In the 1970s it was down to 5.
It was back up in the 1980s with 19 again.
The 1990s had 17.
Starting to decline again in 2000s being down to 12.
So far, 2010s have 6 that all happened in 2012.
As you can see, it isn't on the rise. It's pretty much been this way our entire lives except for the 1970s.
The US isn't the only country that has school shootings.
There's nothing you can do to prevent such tragedies. It's futile, and yes I'm suggesting that we do nothing. We're already doing too much, and all prevention laws do is take away people's rights, turn non criminals into criminals, and if there's a fascist fifth column in our government, they're achieving their goals of a police state. If people are so worried about the safety of their children in public schools, I'd suggest home schooling. Furthermore, the fact that we're even debating such a ridiculous topic goes to show that people don't even realize the dangers and real killers of our children. Drownings and the automobile claim the lion's share of our youth. I don't see anybody calling to have creeks, pools, and five gallon buckets or cars banned, and I hope I never do.
I won't discount the part the media plays in this, and I don't just mean the attention such events garnish. I'm also talking about how we're bombarded with propaganda, consumerism, and the like 24/7. If we don't look, act, or think a certain way, society banishes us and tells us we're losers every waking minute. This is nothing new. The term "Yellow Journalism" was coined back in the 1800s, and I can guarantee you that at some point in history Roman citizens bemoaned serial killers, rapists, and mass murderers laying the blame on the Roman government for having violent bread and circuses at the Colosseum and the news/town criers of the day spreading the violence of such events.
I'm sure that some of you found my words crass, and I'm not sorry for that. Such events are part of society, and since we're all human, we do not have psychic powers to accurately predict or prevent such events. All prevention laws do is take away the rights of law abiding citizens. Murder by definition is a criminal act, so people that overtly perpetrate such activities have already disregarded the laws. Armed guards at the school? Not only would it be too expensive, it would be pointless because they'd be the prime targets, we couldn't afford to have a realistic and sufficient number of security at schools considering that we can't afford the pathetic and expensive education system we have now. Furthermore, rampage killers would just target school buses, go berserk with their autos and mow the kids down while out on recess, and countless other ways man comes up with to murder his fellow man. The only thing we can do is maintain laws forbidding bodily injury, murder, and prosecute the perpetrator after the fact because laws will not prevent it from happening.
Further more, per capita, it's rare! Prescription drugs, cars, and the common cold are exponentially more deadly than rampage killers in schools. Use your own brain to think about what you're asking for and read up on something before you write. "Automatic guns" have been strictly regulated ever since the gun control act of 1934. This pointless piece of legislation was cried for by people just like you, and it's done nothing to prevent crimes with automatic weapons. However, since it's inception, no law abiding citizen with a registered automatic firearm has committed a crime with one, so I guess people that champion gun control should feel good about themselves because nobody has used a legally purchased automatic to commit a crime with over the past 78 years. Furthermore, those that seem to think the wild west was wild, I'd suggest that you look at the eastern cities from that same time frame because it was far more violent in eastern cities than in any old west town. It seems as though people that make such statements watch too much TV. That's right, the lawless west was less violent than the large eastern cities that had anti gun laws barring side arms.
Think before you write! Cheers,
bolillo_loco
P/S
Quote:
Originally Posted by pit2atl
What happens when a kid steal the gun out of the teachers desk and shoots himself.
I think that you'd enjoy the debate, "What if worms had teeth, would chickens still mess with them?"
People, please lay off the mentally ill. In general, they are far less violent than the average person. Cracking on the mentally ill and firearms ownership is like making the following statement, "Black people should be bared from gun ownership because they commit the most crime..."
Last edited by bolillo_loco; 12-17-2012 at 10:14 PM..
Reason: No Rhodes scholar here
I think it's really something to say that nothing should be done about various problems... when other nations don't have these problems to the same degree. There is plenty of analysis to be done about why that is.
Your condition isn't unique. It seems as though the public in general is pretty myopic about murder, firearms, and the media.
I wish our country was full of people like Hopes who, in post number 10 pointed out that this is part of living in society. Hopes is obviouslycapable of independent thought. Critical thinking seems to be a victim of society and in short supply, so I'll restate what Hopes pointed out that most short sighted people seem to either miss or ignore. Hopes wrote,
There's nothing you can do to prevent such tragedies. It's futile, and yes I'm suggesting that we do nothing. We're already doing too much, and all prevention laws do is take away people's rights, turn non criminals into criminals, and if there's a fascist fifth column in our government, they're achieving their goals of a police state. If people are so worried about the safety of their children in public schools, I'd suggest home schooling. Furthermore, the fact that we're even debating such a ridiculous topic goes to show that people don't even realize the dangers and real killers of our children. Drownings and the automobile claim the lion's share of our youth. I don't see anybody calling to have creeks, pools, and five gallon buckets or cars banned, and I hope I never do.
I won't discount the part the media plays in this, and I don't just mean the attention such events garnish. I'm also talking about how we're bombarded with propaganda, consumerism, and the like 24/7. If we don't look, act, or think a certain way, society banishes us and tells us we're losers every waking minute. This is nothing new. The term "Yellow Journalism" was coined back in the 1800s, and I can guarantee you that at some point in history Roman citizens bemoaned serial killers, rapists, and mass murderers laying the blame on the Roman government for having violent bread and circuses at the Colosseum and the news/town criers of the day spreading the violence of such events.
I'm sure that some of you found my words crass, and I'm not sorry for that. Such events are part of society, and since we're all human, we do not have psychic powers to accurately predict or prevent such events. All prevention laws do is take away the rights of law abiding citizens. Murder by definition is a criminal act, so people that overtly perpetrate such activities have already disregarded the laws. Armed guards at the school? Not only would it be too expensive, it would be pointless because they'd be the prime targets, we couldn't afford to have a realistic and sufficient number of security at schools considering that we can't afford the pathetic and expensive education system we have now. Furthermore, rampage killers would just target school buses, go berserk with their autos and mow the kids down while out on recess, and countless other ways man comes up with to murder his fellow man. The only thing we can do is maintain laws forbidding bodily injury, murder, and prosecute the perpetrator after the fact because laws will not prevent it from happening.
Further more, per capita, it's rare! Prescription drugs, cars, and the common cold are exponentially more deadly than rampage killers in schools. Use your own brain to think about what you're asking for and read up on something before you write. "Automatic guns" have been strictly regulated ever since the gun control act of 1934. This pointless piece of legislation was cried for by people just like you, and it's done nothing to prevent crimes with automatic weapons. However, since it's inception, no law abiding citizen with a registered automatic firearm has committed a crime with one, so I guess people that champion gun control should feel good about themselves because nobody has used a legally purchased automatic to commit a crime with over the past 78 years. Furthermore, those that seem to think the wild west was wild, I'd suggest that you look at the eastern cities from that same time frame because it was far more violent in eastern cities than in any old west town. It seems as though people that make such statements watch too much TV. That's right, the lawless west was less violent than the large eastern cities that had anti gun laws barring side arms.
Think before you write! Cheers,
bolillo_loco
P/S
I think that you'd enjoy the debate, "What if worms had teeth, would chickens still mess with them?"
People, please lay off the mentally ill. In general, they are far less violent than the average person. Cracking on the mentally ill and firearms ownership is like making the following statement, "Black people should be bared from gun ownership because they commit the most crime..."
Actually I did not find your words crass, just devoid of any logic and reason. So we should all adopt your defeatist attitude that this is "part of life" and nothing can be done? Sorry, it's only a part of life here in America where we have a love affair with firearms- look at the stats. Use YOUR brain, my friend. People in other nations are shocked that we continue to tolerate this.
As for independent thought, I saw none in your post. Your argument is just a long winded version of the tired old NRA talking point "guns don't kill people, people kill people". The fact is, people with guns kill people, and they do it quickly, efficiently, and in large numbers. It must stop.
You are correct about one thing- my first post did erroneously have the word "automatic" in it, it should have read "semiautomatic". Interesting how you try to use that one typo to invalidate the whole idea of increased weapons restrictions. You want to hunt, fine. Target shoot, fine. The problem is that there are many, many weapons that can be had immediately without a background check or waiting period that are far beyond the firepower needed for any recreational activity.
To deny that the weapons culture and lack of restrictions in this country don't at least play a part in these tragedies is pure denial.
Actually I did not find your words crass, just devoid of any logic and reason. So we should all adopt your defeatist attitude that this is "part of life" and nothing can be done? Sorry, it's only a part of life here in America where we have a love affair with firearms- look at the stats. Use YOUR brain, my friend. People in other nations are shocked that we continue to tolerate this.
As for independent thought, I saw none in your post. Your argument is just a long winded version of the tired old NRA talking point "guns don't kill people, people kill people". The fact is, people with guns kill people, and they do it quickly, efficiently, and in large numbers. It must stop.
You are correct about one thing- my first post did erroneously have the word "automatic" in it, it should have read "semiautomatic". Interesting how you try to use that one typo to invalidate the whole idea of increased weapons restrictions. You want to hunt, fine. Target shoot, fine. The problem is that there are many, many weapons that can be had immediately without a background check or waiting period that are far beyond the firepower needed for any recreational activity.
To deny that the weapons culture and lack of restrictions in this country don't at least play a part in these tragedies is pure denial.
One thing I'm sure that we'll agree on is that despite our best efforts, the words we use are rather ambiguous, so you're colloquial use of the word "automatic" is open for interpretation based on the reader's experience and understanding.
My attitude isn't one of a defeatist, it's one of a realist. You seem to have very limited knowledge of firearms. I can kill as many people with a bolt action rifle, semi auto or automatic. If I were to go on a rampage killing spree, I wouldn't limit myself to a firearm. I'd use an improvised bomb packed with 10 penny nails, a stolen car to mow people down, or some other method like dropping thousands of caltrops on a heavily congested interstate.
Anybody that believes that gun laws will restrict murder obviously lacks imagination. Since humans have been killing each other off in mass long before the firearm was even invented, no new gun legislation will work. If we could miraculously wave the proverbial magic wand and poof, all firearms in the world would disappear, all that would happen is that the tools used would either change, revert back to older technology, and or the inventiveness of methods used would increase. We cannot prevent these things from happening. Furthermore, you and many others seem to feel that there is no world outside of the states. These events have happened all throughout history and affect every country. All we can do is punish the perpetrators after the fact. Hence, it's my contention that your words are the ones lacking logic and reason. People that obviously have unrealistic fantasy views on prevention laws, should also believe that enlisting psychics, tarot card and palm readers would also help.
The entire premise of your argument is based on emotion rather than intellect. If you can't see independent thought in my post, you're obviously not looking for it. I do now own guns, I am not an NRA member, and I don't read any of their publications, so how could I possibly be parroting what they say and be one of their minions? As far as long winded goes, that's what happens when debating with somebody that's using an intellectual argument over your obvious myopic emotional debate. You do not need proof. All you and people like you need is a feeling, and therefore emotional manipulative arguments are both short on words and logic. For example, "I feel guns are only made to kill, so let's ban them."
Last edited by bolillo_loco; 12-18-2012 at 12:23 AM..
Reason: No Rhodes scholar here.
I think that you'd enjoy the debate, "What if worms had teeth, would chickens still mess with them?"
People, please lay off the mentally ill. In general, they are far less violent than the average person. Cracking on the mentally ill and firearms ownership is like making the following statement, "Black people should be bared from gun ownership because they commit the most crime..."
No, my friend, I would not like a “what if” debate, as I never said "what if". If you read my post I said what happens when the child takes the gun out of the teachers desk and shoots himself. It's not uncommon for kids to sneak into teacher’s desk. Also it's not uncommon for teachers to say "Jimmy grab a pencil out of my first drawer". Have you forgotten about human era? While that teacher may be attending to students needs with um I don't know a math, reading, science problem they may forget the handgun in the drawer.
Another situation I remember quite clear being 23 yrs old, and just 10 years ago I was in 8th grade. Everyone in my school was wearing head-bands (boys) so the school banned them. When ever a student was caught wearing one the teacher would take it and place it in their desk drawer, which places a students item about 6inches from a HANDGUN. When the teacher would leave the classroom to make copies, talk to another teacher, take a child to bathroom with bloody nose, kids would run up to the teachers desk and retrieve their items. So back to my question "What happens when the kid takes the gun and shoots himself or someone else". You can miss me with your what it worms B.S
Quote:
Originally Posted by bolillo_loco
People, please lay off the mentally ill. In general, they are far less violent than the average person. Cracking on the mentally ill and firearms ownership is like making the following statement, "Black people should be bared from gun ownership because they commit the most crime..."
Crazy black people should be bared from gun ownership! That statement by its self speaks volumes of how you feel about blacks. You're so out of touch and nra talking points you cant even see children are dying out here! sad,sad man.
I think we agree. I don't think guns alone will solve it. I'm super upset that it appears the government will only change gun policies without addressing mental health policies.
The only policy they mention is tightening up the chance of mentally ill people obtaining guns. Well, this shooting is proof that mentally ill don't need to purchase guns in order to have access to guns. It's just not going to be good enough.
I don't think we'll see any improvements regarding mental health when it's badly needed on so many levels, not just for violence.
I heard one of the senators I think this morning on the radio saying what I thought were significant remarks about mental health. But I'd be surprised if either are significantly changed. More likely any changes will be fairly superficial after this fizzles out a bit and our collective short attention span turns to something else.
I really hope this post was meant as a joke- otherwise I pity you for your lack of sanity and intelligence.
Connecticut already had the strictest gun control laws in the country. It got 27 people killed at school. Preventing law abiding citizens from carrying a gun gets people killed. Increasing gun control increases gun violence. Wake-Up People!!!
I am a traveling service tech. I have been held at gunpoint or robbed at gunpoint at least 5 times by 7 different criminals with 7 different guns. It always happened in "Gun Free Areas" The criminals always, Always, ALWAYS had guns in the "Gun Free Areas" ! I have a CCW gun license but could not carry in those areas. Not allowing CCW is putting everyones lives in danger.
A gun free zone is a magnet for the mass murdering shooters. Just like rental cars with logo stickers on them became magnets in Florida when they passed CCW laws. After the 1987 Florida CCW law passed the Criminals figured only the tourist were un-armed. Therefore an increasing number of tourists, most of them foreign, were victims of carjackings there. Because tourists in well-marked rental cars became common carjacking victims, Florida passed legislation in 1993 (F.S.A. § 320.0601) that outlawed company logos and license plates that made rental and leased cars obvious.
All we have to do is make everyone else believe that teachers are armed & the schools will suddenly be safer. Only a few teachers actually need to be armed & schools are no longer a target. The guns would be concealed or locked in a safe so the Children would never even know a gun was present.
Connecticut already had the strictest gun control laws in the country. It got 27 people killed at school. Preventing law abiding citizens from carrying a gun gets people killed. Increasing gun control increases gun violence. Wake-Up People!!!
I am a traveling service tech. I have been held at gunpoint or robbed at gunpoint at least 5 times by 7 different criminals with 7 different guns. It always happened in "Gun Free Areas" The criminals always, Always, ALWAYS had guns in the "Gun Free Areas" ! I have a CCW gun license but could not carry in those areas. Not allowing CCW is putting everyones lives in danger.
A gun free zone is a magnet for the mass murdering shooters. Just like rental cars with logo stickers on them became magnets in Florida when they passed CCW laws. After the 1987 Florida CCW law passed the Criminals figured only the tourist were un-armed. Therefore an increasing number of tourists, most of them foreign, were victims of carjackings there. Because tourists in well-marked rental cars became common carjacking victims, Florida passed legislation in 1993 (F.S.A. § 320.0601) that outlawed company logos and license plates that made rental and leased cars obvious.
All we have to do is make everyone else believe that teachers are armed & the schools will suddenly be safer. Only a few teachers actually need to be armed & schools are no longer a target. The guns would be concealed or locked in a safe so the Children would never even know a gun was present.
Sorry, I don't believe that you can deter lunatics like these mass shooting perpetrators with the possibility that some teacher or school official is armed. They are often suicidal anyway. It won't matter. And although you may make some criminals think twice with the possibility of an armed confrontation, many hardened criminals have a lot of confidence in their ability to wield a weapon and are well aware that they are more likely to pull the trigger than the average gun-toting citizen. More weapons will not make us safer.
If I were to go on a rampage killing spree, I wouldn't limit myself to a firearm. I'd use an improvised bomb packed with 10 penny nails, a stolen car to mow people down, or some other method like dropping thousands of caltrops on a heavily congested interstate.
Again you show a defeatist attitude. By the same logic you could say "let's not make drunk driving illegal, since there will be car accidents anyway".
Quote:
Originally Posted by bolillo_loco
all that would happen is that the tools used would either change, revert back to older technology
Fantastic. I would much rather defend myself against a lunatic holding a musket vs. a lunatic holding a semiautomatic rifle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bolillo_loco
You do not need proof. All you and people like you need is a feeling, and therefore emotional manipulative arguments are both short on words and logic. For example, "I feel guns are only made to kill, so let's ban them."
You're right- how silly of me to think that guns are made for the primary purpose of killing. Clearly this is based on a "feeling" only, and most guns are made to be used for target practice only. That's why so many criminals and the military use them, and people buy them for defense.
Ironic that so many gun advocates claim that the call for increased restrictions is nothing but a "gut feeling", then many of those same people go on to make wild assertions about video games, or "the lack of God in our schools" being responsible for these incidents as though there is some proven correlation there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bolillo_loco
you and many others seem to feel that there is no world outside of the states
I had to read that comment twice because I couldn't believe you actually typed it. Again and again people have pointed out that no other nation in the free world has the level of mass shootings per capita as the U.S., and the rest of the world is shocked that we allow this to continue, but people like you just want to ignore that and act like it's irrelevant or untrue. Who is acting like there is no world outside the States? It's not those calling for a change.
All I am asking for is a national conversation to review the current gun laws and discuss what might lower the level of violence. But the more I interact with people like you, the more I realize that a conversation doesn't help. You just want to stick your fingers in your ears and say "lalalalala nothing is wrong!". Clearly we will just need to go around you instead. And it will happen. There will never be a "ban" on firearms in this country, nor do I think we need to be that extremist. But if enough Americans want increased restrictions, it will happen. We are hitting a turning point.
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! I have a CCW gun license but could not carry in those areas. Not allowing CCW is putting everyones lives in danger.
