One thing that really is Pittsburgh's fault (Philadelphia, Reading: sales, sales tax)

[Craziaskowboi]

Originally Posted by Hopes

The fact that Harrisburg is in the middle of the rural area doesn't help matters.

Springfield, IL is surrounded by fields of corn and soybeans, but that doesn't prevent Chicago from pulling the strings out there. Furthermore, the Harrisburg MSA has over 500,000 people, which isn't exactly small, and the greater region including Lebanon, York and Lancaster has nearly 2,000,000 people. Urban issues affect them too, especially as that region of Pennsylvania keeps growing.

Originally Posted by Lobick

Implicit in your post is that the population of the Pittsburgh MSA have some sort of affection for or recognize their allignment of interests with the City of Pittsburgh (a mere 300k+ souls). I'm not sure that's the case.

Often I've found (anequdotally and not comprehensively, lest some posters take offense) the suburban or exurban resident to be more hostile to urban interests and concerns than their rural counterparts.

I'd be curious to see how the state reps and senators within the Pittsburgh MSA vote on some of the issues put forth that have a pro-urban bent.

Increasingly, Pittsburgh and Allegheny County are aligning with each other while the outlying counties align against them. The good news is, Allegheny County alone contains more than half of the metropolitan population, and it's also begun to grow more rapidly than the outlying counties combined, so its influence in the metropolitan area will continue to grow.

[pman]

Originally Posted by HeavenWood

Located in one of the country's wealthiest metros, and yet, beyond a few crackpots, no calls for revolution in sight.

or rather it has created the countrys wealthiest metro.
they sgould break it up, president in des moines, legislature in altoona, supreme court in el paso. ; ) more seriously, how about state capitol in the second largest city. pittsburgh, buffalo, etc.
it wouldnt be a terrible thing if philly and pittsburgh didnt have schmucks in the legislature lile ferlo and evans

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by Gnutella

Springfield, IL is surrounded by fields of corn and soybeans, but that doesn't prevent Chicago from pulling the strings out there. Furthermore, the Harrisburg MSA has over 500,000 people, which isn't exactly small, and the greater region including Lebanon, York and Lancaster has nearly 2,000,000 people. Urban issues affect them too, especially as that region of Pennsylvania keeps growing.

When you move to Harrisburg from Pittsburgh , Harrisburg FEELS very small and rural.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by RyanR

Out of curiosity, what do you think would happen if you centralized a State's power into its largest city or most affluent area?

What happens to upstate NY if the Capital was moved to NYC?
California if moved to LA?
IL to Chicago?

It's too much power and money in a central area.
My history is rusty but think historically about:
Saint Petersburg in Russia
Versailles in France
Rome in Italy

Look at our Washington DC.

Denver in Colorado.

Ironically, the same is often said about CO politics; too much concern about rural interests. It's an age-old issue in many states.

[ElijahAstin]

Originally Posted by Hopes

When you move to Harrisburg from Pittsburgh , Harrisburg FEELS very small and rural.

To me, Harrisburg feels more sprawled out than rural, though its exurbs are certainly closer to its urban core than Philadelphia or Pittsburgh's.

[ryanm3685]

This makes me wonder if breaking up Pennsylvania into three or four states would be in order, so we can see for sure who sinks and swims. You occasionally hear someone far from the Philadelphia metro bitching, "give Philadelphia away to New Jersey." Maybe it's time to see that happen, and then those people would be missing the revenue that they lost when Pennsylvania was one state. It really blows my mind how some people are oblivious to the fact that urban and rural areas (and everything in between) are interdependent on each other. Food is cultivated on the farms in the sparsely populated areas, yet it is sold in major areas such as the Reading Terminal.

Anyway, I want to see every section of Pennsylvania elect representatives and senators who try to look out for the state at large rather than bickering (nothing wrong with arguing) and mooching and backstabbing.

For those who lived in other states, are state representatives usually this territorial for their own area at the expense of the rest of their state, or does Pennsylvania happen to be the most dysfunctional in this regrad?

[fat lou]

Originally Posted by Lobick

Implicit in your post is that the population of the Pittsburgh MSA have some sort of affection for or recognize their allignment of interests with the City of Pittsburgh (a mere 300k+ souls). I'm not sure that's the case.

Often I've found (anequdotally and not comprehensively, lest some posters take offense) the suburban or exurban resident to be more hostile to urban interests and concerns than their rural counterparts.

I'd be curious to see how the state reps and senators within the Pittsburgh MSA vote on some of the issues put forth that have a pro-urban bent.

This is exactly what I was thinking. I know that it's fashionable in some quarters to bash small-town and rural people, but we all know plenty of suburbanites (yes, even Allegheny County residents) who hold "the city" in complete contempt. I'm sure that they are just as inimical to urban interests as the good folks in the central and northern areas of the state.

The truth is, this just isn't an urban country, and hasn't been since the 50s.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by HeavenWood

To me, Harrisburg feels more sprawled out than rural, though its exurbs are certainly closer to its urban core than Philadelphia or Pittsburgh's.

Have you noticed the incredible amount of dead animals on the roads? Wildlife is thriving there. Head up river from downtown and you're in the middle of the boondocks in 5 minutes. It's sprawled out on the east and west but you can still be in the middle of nowhere within 15 minutes from almost anywhere. The more you get out of the city and suburbs, the more you get the sense of how rural it is. Incredible expanses of farmland are very nearby. Into the mountains, it has a very Appalachian feel. If you're ever invited to a pig roast, I highly recommend you go for the experience even if you don't eat pork.

Coincidently, I have to take a quick trip to Harrisburg tomorrow.

[ryanm3685]

Originally Posted by Gnutella

Increasingly, Pittsburgh and Allegheny County are aligning with each other while the outlying counties align against them. The good news is, Allegheny County alone contains more than half of the metropolitan population, and it's also begun to grow more rapidly than the outlying counties combined, so its influence in the metropolitan area will continue to grow.

So you're saying the surrounding counties in the Pittsburgh MSA are ganging up against Allegheny? Can somebody please explain to me what is going through their head? I made a satirical thread about when core cities supposedly become obsolete to an outlying area? Most people replied that a suburb/exurb/edge city/whatever needs the core city to survive. However, maybe the militant "screw Pittsburgh" crowd in some of the outlying counties are deluded enough to believe that Pittsburgh could just transform into empty grassland and their area wouldn't feel any repercussions? I am just trying to understand what kind of Haterade some people are sipping on, or even worse - shotgunning.

For the record, I have relatives who live in both Westmoreland and Butler counties. I don't think it's necessarily Pittsburgh/Allegheny county hate driving them, but most likely lower taxes and/or they just happen to like a place they found outside the county.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by ryanm3685

This makes me wonder if breaking up Pennsylvania into three or four states would be in order, so we can see for sure who sinks and swims. You occasionally hear someone far from the Philadelphia metro bitching, "give Philadelphia away to New Jersey." Maybe it's time to see that happen, and then those people would be missing the revenue that they lost when Pennsylvania was one state. It really blows my mind how some people are oblivious to the fact that urban and rural areas (and everything in between) are interdependent on each other. Food is cultivated on the farms in the sparsely populated areas, yet it is sold in major areas such as the Reading Terminal.

Anyway, I want to see every section of Pennsylvania elect representatives and senators who try to look out for the state at large rather than bickering (nothing wrong with arguing) and mooching and backstabbing.

For those who lived in other states, are state representatives usually this territorial for their own area at the expense of the rest of their state, or does Pennsylvania happen to be the most dysfunctional in this regrad?

I've lived in seven states, three for long periods of time: PA, Illinois, and Colorado, CO for the last 33 years so I don't have major recollection of the politics of the others. However, as I said above, this is a complaint in Colorado, too. 55% of Colorado's population lives in metro Denver, with another 27% living in the rest of the Front Range metro areas (Ft. Collins, Colorado Springs and Pueblo). YET, rural interests seem to dominate. Many times a law will be proposed only to be shot down b/c it would be disadvantageous to the rural areas.

I lived in rural Illinois; there was much animosity there towards Chicago, but Illinois govt. is so corrupt and everyone is involved, so I don't think there's a lot of rural/urban strife.

The Buzz: Front Range Counties to Dominate Colorado’s Population and Politics