Pittsburgh 2020 Vision (Washington, Shiloh, Duquesne: transplants, renting, loft)

[nuwaver88]

It is almost 2010. I was thinking what Pittsburgh will be like from a development standpoint in a decade, in the year 2020. I want to focus on the Golden Triangle area, North Shore, and The Strip.

Some may feel that Pittsburgh is poised to boom this decade. I beg to differ. We will most likely see steady growth even when the recession is over.

For Downtown, we may see up to 8,000 residents, which would more than double what we have now. I see a cleaner, more modern Downtown, especially along Fifth and Forbes. Unfortunately, I do not forsee the vibrant twenty-four hour Downtown that we aspire to have. Downtown is an island where people work and go to cultural events. I do see an improved Downtown with more green space. I hope I am wrong but there have been plans to make Downtown a vibrant place after dark for years. Unless we can somehow get the population up to about 15-20,000 by then, there will never be a demand to have business owners stay open late on a consistent basis. As for the Mellon Arena site, we will see a few buildings with green space, but I do not foresee a mini city on the site. Pittsburgh never booms Industrial Revolution style anymore because of an outdated perception that the city cannot completely shake.

I think Buncher finally gets off of it's butt and starts to develop it's property in the form of housing in The Strip with town homes along the river east of the convention center and behind the Produce Terminal up to the Cork Factory. I foresee a Washington's Landing type development.
Hopefully Riverparc, the ambitious plan of the Cultural Trust along Fort Duquesne and environs, will be completed in some form.
The North Shore should see some housing too. I sure hope so because it would add so much to that area once the subway is done.
Uptown has no reason not to be more vibrant because they are adding a modern venue that will produce upwards of 250 dates a year and it will be in the street grid on Fifth. This area is only in it's embryonic stage.
Mt. Washington will see a few more condos of various size. I see Shiloh Street as a hip little enclave.
Station Square may expand. Housing on it's western end would offer amazing views and a convenient location for Downtown workers.

I think my views are conservative. The city may very well boom. Hopefully, we can continue to grow the educational, medical, and technology fields. And hopefully, we will not become too trendy because we just cannot support it with our infrastructure. That is why it would behoove people to live Downtown or near their place of work . I know a lot of young people who want to live Downtown but rents are way too high. Create jobs, lower the rent, and Downtown, along with the North Shore, and The Strip, may see 15,000 people by then. I would not mind hearing other people's thought's on this. Maybe even their thoughts on other city neighborhoods like Oakland, South Side, etc.

[neurodistortion]

First of all, Downtown is not an island, at least when you compare it to a true island like Manhattan. I think we'll be seeing a lot of development occurring on the North Shore, especially after the T line opens in 2011. The downside to that development is that traffic is going to be horrible in that area, not like it isn't already. In the Downtown area, well be seeing more pedestrian friendly areas and more green space, which is already happening in certain parts of the downtown area. The Mellon Arena site will slowly but surely be built to complement the new arena, but it will be an adjunct of the arena rather than connecting it with the rest of the Hill District. We already know what happens when you try to blend the old with the new, just look at the Waterfront as an example. I know this isn't right in the city but I think we'll be seeing new development at Century III when that mall goes under. I'll give it another five years, seven at the most before it gets bulldozed.

[nuwaver88]

I did not mean that it was literally an island. It is just by itself. It is not really connected to any neighborhood besides The Hill, and that is cut off by Mellon Arena. That was the point I was trying to make.

[pman]

I think a downtown population of 20k is not unreasonable if the burgh tried (ahem, advertises). I think a healthier downtown is closely linked with performance in the rest of the city. I think airport performance as well as improved train connectivity will also play a factor. Pittsburgh has a lot of potential, but the question remains what can it make of it.

[Impala26]

I'm still inclined to think that if transportation were improved that would foster development in downtown and immediate outlying neighborhoods. There's no doubt in my mind we will see a continued development of the North Shore with the completion of the T line there.

I remain adamant for the rest of the city to really take advantage of new growth is investment in reliable and easy to understand rapid transit like the T. I'm speaking of longer-range plans beyond that of 2020, but I still think it is important. I recall reading that since the new streetcar network in Portland was completed in 2001, approximately 3.4 billion dollars have been invested within 2 blocks away from the line along its length. The city could make investment in a similar streetcar system or this could even take the form of people-movers like those at the airport (gasp, it's the Skybus plan all over again!)

The inherent problems with these of course are money. Even I'm not sure where it would come from, and God-forbid people pay a new tax. I still think Oakland, South Side, The Strip, and the myriad of eastern neighborhoods deserve something like this. Fingers crossed the new TDP works out more simply and efficient than the current system. I still can't shake the feeling that people prefer "quiet" trains/guideways to traditional "noisy/dirty" diesel buses.

[BrianTH]

My guess is that if the Greater Downtown area is going to get a nightlife area, it will actually be in the Bluff/Lower-Hill/Uptown area, not right in the Golden Triangle. It would be anchored by the new arena (I keep thinking of what happened around the MCI/Verizon Center in DC), and well-located for access from the Downtown area, Oakland, and the Hill. And incidentally, good public transit in this area (e.g., a new T stop or two, or at least really good Rapid Bus) would help greatly.

I do think more people will be living right Downtown, however. The Market Square area is going to be fantastic, and Point Park is also doing great things in its footprint, and all that will create even more incentive to convert more condos, and maybe restart Riverparc. I just don't quite know the timeframe--it really depends on how quickly credit starts looking for new projects again, because I think once it does, Pittsburgh is going to look very attractive.

[WhiteSox]

Originally Posted by nuwaver88

Some may feel that Pittsburgh is poised to boom this decade. I beg to differ. We will most likely see steady growth even when the recession is over.

.

My two cents.....

Went through a recent relo to Pittsburgh from Chciago - 6 weeks in and here is what i see.

Downtown is poised for redevelopment but the folks need to set realistic prices for the properties offered here. The prices are in line with things back in Chicago and my first question is - FOR WHAT? There is nothing down here of convenience. Grocery store anyone? Not to mention that while things are a work in progress - there is still a great deal that is not!

Its a joke that someone is asking close to $300K for a 1 bed/1 bath loft here. I think its going to be people like me (transplants to the brugh) that are going t assist with the redevelopment as most of the people I have met her and work with have no desire to live anywhere near downtown.

Civic planning seems to be on the right track - if only the developers can get on the same page and price things right - it can all fall into place pretty easy.

[BrianTH]

The thing is that housing Downtown has been selling/renting quite well at the current price points. So it is kinda tough to argue to developers that they should lower their prices.

[pman]

prices are restricted by supply, I think Brian has made the point before that demand so far has outstripped supply downtown

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by pman

prices are restricted by supply, I think Brian has made the point before that demand so far has outstripped supply downtown

Yep. The other issue is that you can get tax abatements for many of these properties, which also increases the demand/price.