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I was born and raised just outside of St. Louis and moved to Richmond about two years ago. I must admit.. I hate it here. It's nothing like St. Louis so it makes it very hard to feel like I'm "home." My husband and I are very open to moving if I can find a good place to go. I do love St. Louis, but there are reasons why I left and I can't ignore them. But I've heard Pittsburgh is similar to it, so I wanted to look into it!
I've been doing some research, so I'm not completely in the dark. But I still wanted to get some local's opinions.. So a few questions. Probably more than a few, and I apologize in advance for them. lol
What's the weather like? I've read it's gloomy, which I can handle. But are the summers really hot? Winters really brutal? Is there a significant tornado threat (I've read there isn't, but it's still a fear of mine :P)? I also read about the flooding, but I can handle that. I'm used to it.
What about entertainment? Is everything pretty expensive? I love going to the zoo (St. Louis has one of the best -- and it's free!) so what's yours like? Art museums are fun for me too (St. Louis's is also free), and I've heard they're common in Pittsburgh. I know the nature scene is on point there -- hiking, kayaking, etc. St. Louis doesn't have much of that so it sounds amazing! The option to see a musical once in a while would be nice, but isn't necessary. I also know about the pride Pittsburgh has in team sports. I don't know if I'll ever be able to ignore my love the Cardinals, but I'm willing to pretend.
What about the economy? Average rent and housing prices? Gas and groceries?
I've read the traffic is bad compared to some places.. I used to think St. Louis had bad traffic until I moved to Richmond. There's a town minutes from me that is bumper to bumper no matter the time of day or day of the week. Also, do you feel part of the community in Pittsburgh? I always felt connected to everyone in St. Louis because of our pride in the city, but Richmond is lacking in that department. So it makes it really hard to enjoy living here, feeling like I'm just a blip on the radar.
My husband works as a manager in retail, and I don't work, so I'm not too terribly concerned about the job market. He can work pretty much anywhere. We're also not big party people so the nightlife scene isn't super important to me.
Anyway.. The city looks beautiful, and the idea of living in a town with such pride for their team sports makes me really excited.. Is there anything else about Pittsburgh that makes it really unique or that makes you love living there?
Sorry for the long post. I just wanna make sure I know as much as possible before making a decision to move. Thanks so much!
Pittsburgh is gloomy in Nov, Dec, March and April, generally. June and July are sunny, except this year we had an unusual amount of rain. The other months are a combination of partly sunny, partly cloudy and any equivalent phrase the weathermen can come up with. January and Feb are cold, with some 'brutal' stretches. Spring and Fall are outstanding. July is too hot for me but most people like it. It sometimes goes over 90F, but not usually. My least favorite month is July, followed by January. My favorite months are October and May.
We have a zoo, an aviary, various museums and a big arts scene, including the kind of musicals you describe.
Pittsburgh is a beautiful city and western PA is a gorgeous natural environment with plenty to do. The river life will be familiar to you, our hilly terrain and forests will make Pittsburgh seem different.
You should visit.
Last edited by Goinback2011; 07-31-2015 at 10:12 AM..
Pittsburgh is gloomy in Nov, Dec, March and April, generally. June and July are sunny, except this year we had an unusual amount of rain. The other months are a combination of partly sunny, partly cloudy and any equivalent phrase the weathermen can come up with. January and Feb are cold, with some 'brutal' stretches. Spring and Fall are outstanding. July is too hot for me but most people like it. It sometimes goes over 90F, but not usually. My least favorite month is July, followed by January. My favorite months are October and May.
We have a zoo, an aviary, various museums and a big arts scene, including the kind of musicals you describe.
Pittsburgh is a beautiful city and western PA is a gorgeous natural environment with plenty to do. The river life will be familiar to you, our hilly terrain and forests will make Pittsburgh seem different.
You should visit.
Hey that all sounds good to me. lol I can handle cold weather. I just hate heat. St. Louis regularly had heat advisories and tornado warnings, which are two of the main reasons I left. Our current weather in Richmond has temperatures in the nineties pretty much all week. And looking at Pittsburgh's temps, it's only upper 80s there. So that would be a nice change. lol
I've been looking into more info, and I'm falling more in love with the place despite the fact I've never been. We're taking a trip to St. Louis soon, so I may see about stopping in Pittsburgh on the way home to visit.
What sort of neighborhood are you looking for? Urban, suburban, or somewhere in between? Do you want to drive everywhere or use mass transit? Do you want to have access to a walkable business district? How much are you looking to pay in rent?
Pittsburgh, St. Louis, and Cincinnati (which I also recommend you inquire about on their sub-forum) are all pretty similar in terms of built environments, as they are all Industrial-Era river cities undergoing various levels of revitalization. Pittsburgh, in my opinion, has the nicest and densest Downtown with the most striking skyline of the three. I also think Pittsburgh has the best overall amenities in terms of culture, recreation, and entertainment. In terms of politics Pittsburgh is a far left-of-center city within a state that leans left-of-center. Cincinnati and St. Louis are both moderately left-of-center cities within states that are moderately right-of-center.
The cost-of-living in Pittsburgh is reasonable. It used to be "cheap" as recently as 10-15 years ago, but the city has undergone a massive renaissance since then, and monthly rents especially have risen dramatically to reflect that. I'm a delivery driver and live very near to some supposedly "dangerous" neighborhoods, but since nearly every homicide victim in this city knew their assailant (i.e. gangs, drugs, domestic disputes, etc.) I never feel concerned for my personal safety. You should expect to pay roughly $800/month-$900/month for a 1-BR in most parts of the city (obviously higher for the newer apartments). Parts of the coveted East End (Shadyside, Squirrel Hill, Oakland) will generally run you $1,000/month+ for a 1-BR unit. You can still find some ~$600/month 1-BR deals on CraigsList, but such units will either be outdated (think not even having a refrigerator or stove, much less a window-unit A/C or dishwasher), in an undesirable area (high-crime or out in the sticks like West Mifflin or Stowe Township), or both.
Traffic? Yes, it's horrible. The problem with our city is that our very steep and hilly topography creates a lot of "choke points" that are difficult to navigate around if they are taken out of commission either voluntarily (construction) or involuntarily (car accident). Yesterday, for example, I tried to get from a restaurant in the Strip District to a residence in Squirrel Hill (both east of Downtown) at rush-hour, and it took me nearly 45 minutes to go what ended up being about five miles. I literally could have run the order on foot there in about the same amount of time. Today, too, I-376 outbound was already backed up from the Squirrel Hill tunnel past Oakland (a few miles) at 12:45 PM when I just drove by. I'm only imagining it will be even worse as we head closer to the evening rush, and, believe it or not, this is supposed to be the "low traffic" time of year because Pitt/CMU are largely not in session yet. We direly need light rail from east-to-west, but we don't have the money for such a project, and the local natives hate paying taxes for anything. You should see how they complain about new bike lanes on social media.
The weather? It's been stunning the past week, but, at least in my opinion, this feels like the first week of summer here, and it's already pretty much August, so that's a shame. We had nothing but incessant rain, clouds, and below-average temperatures through a week or two ago. The winters here are tolerable in terms of temperatures and amount of snow; however, the lack of sunlight from December through March is a killer. These past two winters have been brutally cold, but that's not the norm. If anything, this upcoming winter is supposed to be very warm because we're heading into a very strong El Nino pattern, which will also help to quell California's drought, at least. Fall is gorgeous. Spring usually is, too, albeit I personally thought our most recent Spring was too brief.
Traffic is typcially worse in Pittsburgh than in either St. Louis or Richmond, but really this mostly depends on where you are most likely to drive for a work commute, so a good commute can be had, especially if only one of you works.
Cost of living in Pgh is a little higher than St. Louis, a little lower than Richmond. Home prices in Pgh are relatively low, so that is a good deal compared to renting, but you may be a little shocked at the higher property tax rates, so look into that. If you want to rent a newer 2 bdrm apt to start off, you can probably expect a rent from $1600 - 2400 depending on location.
Pgh weather is in general pretty good unless you like year round sun. Natural disasters of any kind are rare. Tornadoes are almost never a threat, some flooding but usually well known areas, every now and then a hurricane might cause bad weather. Occasional winter blizzards but not that common.
What other things did you really hate about Richmond, maybe some of us can clue you in to whether Pgh is similar or not in that regard.
Winters are dreary, usually temps hover around freezing but can get some brutal stretches of single digit days. Snow seems to be frequent, but usually only a little at a time. Summers are a bit humid, temps usually 80's occasionally in 90's. Hardly unbearable ever, but its relative. People get by without AC here, although I wouldn't recommend it myself. I think there are occasional very small tornados but never anything that might take you to Oz. Natural disasters are all pretty rare here and its never something that you would be worried about it.
Entertainment/culture is plentiful and can be had at normal prices. The only thing that strikes me as expensive is Steelers tickets if you don't have a hookup to get them at face value(ish). Craigslist, stubhub, scalpers are commonly $200-400/ticket.
Economy is decent to good, depending on the sector. Rent is relatively expensive, but will vary widely based on what you want. Most housing is old. New(ish) construction is generally pretty expensive, whether you buy or rent. Housing used to be very cheap here, its less so now although some relatively undesirable but still safely livable areas remain almost unbelievably inexpensive. High property taxes (~2% ballpark for many areas) do need to be considered in total cost of housing and make some of the prices look better than they really are.
I find traffic to be fine compared to places like DC and Baltimore or even Norfolk, but its not great either. Depends on where you are going and when. If you are able to avoid some specific bridge/tunnel bottlenecks, its not that bad. If you do them daily, you will probably be far less happy.
@Eschaton, I'd rather live in the suburbs honestly. Back home, I didn't technically live in St. Louis. I lived in Illinois, about 30-45 minutes away from the city. So I had all the benefits of big city living without any of the hassle. I drive most everywhere, but mass transit would be nice to avoid heavy traffic for events. St. Louis had a metro line that would take you everywhere. So you could just park and walk to the stadiums or the arch. And ideally, I'd like to keep my rent below $1k. My husband is the only one bringing in money right now, so it depends on him. I can work if I have to. It just works better for both of us that I don't.
@SteelCityRising Eesh.. That rent sounds about like Richmond, which is one of my main reasons for disliking it. Maybe if I go further out, about 30-45 minutes outside the city, I'd find better prices? I'll go look into that now. As for the traffic, does that spread pretty far outside of the city? Everything in Richmond is so close together, so it's constantly busy all the time. So you can pick between being near everything you could ever need (pro) but have to face horrible traffic (con)... Or living in the middle of nowhere, where every restaurant or shopping center is a half-hour drive away (con), but never have traffic (pro). It's a no win situation. Is it like that near Pittsburgh too or are there smaller towns nearby that don't have a traffic issue? The weather doesn't sound like a problem to me. St. Louis has pretty brutal, dreary winters so I'm used to that. As long as I don't get unbearable heat, I can handle pretty much anything.
@Buster I'll definitely look into property taxes. Thank you! The things I mostly hate about Richmond are 1) lack of team sports, and thus lack of feeling like part of a community, 2) NOTHING to do unless you like history (which I don't) or want to drive 1-2 hours in any direction for hiking or a decent zoo (which, again, I don't), 3) housing prices and rent are ridiculous around here. I'm used to Illinois prices, so I think any other place is going to be high to me. In Missouri and Illinois, you can buy a rundown house that needs completely gutted for $15k. In Richmond, take that same house and you'll be lucky to get it for less than $80k. My husband got preapproved last year for what I thought was a good amount. In Illinois, we'd have our pick of any house at that rate. But in Richmond? You can get a one bed, one bath, 600sq ft shack. It's pretty awful. I looked up houses in our price range in Pittsburgh last night to see what our options were. And while I don't know what neighborhoods are good and bad, there were plenty of nice homes we could afford. And they're so unique! Not the typical cookie cutter homes I'm used to seeing around here.
Are you looking to rent a house or an apartment? Rents are definitely cheaper 30-45 minutes outside the city (particularly if you're measuring ideal driving times and not rush hour commutes). Do you have children or is school district not a concern? Do you actually want to live that far out, or are you just willing to if finances force it? I think SteelCityRising painted a rather bleak picture of the rental market in the city. Outside of the east end there are a lot of places where you can get cheap apartments in safe areas in or near the city.
Are you interested in renovating a gut job? You can get those from 15K to 50K depending where they are. Maybe a little more or less in extremely desirable or undesirable locations.
What sort of rent or home price budget are you working with?
Winters are dreary, usually temps hover around freezing but can get some brutal stretches of single digit days. Snow seems to be frequent, but usually only a little at a time. Summers are a bit humid, temps usually 80's occasionally in 90's. Hardly unbearable ever, but its relative. People get by without AC here, although I wouldn't recommend it myself. I think there are occasional very small tornados but never anything that might take you to Oz. Natural disasters are all pretty rare here and its never something that you would be worried about it.
Entertainment/culture is plentiful and can be had at normal prices. The only thing that strikes me as expensive is Steelers tickets if you don't have a hookup to get them at face value(ish). Craigslist, stubhub, scalpers are commonly $200-400/ticket.
Economy is decent to good, depending on the sector. Rent is relatively expensive, but will vary widely based on what you want. Most housing is old. New(ish) construction is generally pretty expensive, whether you buy or rent. Housing used to be very cheap here, its less so now although some relatively undesirable but still safely livable areas remain almost unbelievably inexpensive. High property taxes (~2% ballpark for many areas) do need to be considered in total cost of housing and make some of the prices look better than they really are.
I find traffic to be fine compared to places like DC and Baltimore or even Norfolk, but its not great either. Depends on where you are going and when. If you are able to avoid some specific bridge/tunnel bottlenecks, its not that bad. If you do them daily, you will probably be far less happy.
Honestly, I quite love snow.. lol That's one reason I dislike Richmond so much. St. Louis always had white winters, and in Richmond, we're lucky to get a dusting. And when we do, the city is basically shut down. They have no budget for snow, so they treat it with sand and rarely plow. I was never afraid to drive in snow until I moved here. lol So I think it'd be a welcome change to have snow again. Winter almost seems pointless to me without snow. It gets really humid here too. I wonder how it compares? I'm sure it's not nearly as bad as St. Louis. They just had a heat index of 105+ last week. So anything cooler than that works for me. lol Great news about the tornadoes! You'd think growing up with them, I'd be used to it. But it's really quite the opposite. They terrify me to no end. lol Storms still scare me, even here in Richmond where they're rare, because I'm afraid they could turn into one at any second. I'd be nice to live in an area that has less of a chance of tornadoes (or so I've read).
I've never really been a huge football fan (I had the St. Louis Rams to root for... 'Nuff said), but I'm sure I'd enjoy it once I had a good team to cheer for. lol Funny, I just looked at how much Rams ticket prices are compared to Steelers. And the tickets all start at around $5, until the Rams play the Steelers.. Then it jumped up to $60. lol I guess if you have a good team, you pay the price for it, yeah? Anyway. It wouldn't be a regularly thing I'd do, but it may happen on occasion. So I'd be willing to pay the $200 once a season at least.
Looking up property taxes, I see that Illinois (where I lived) has 1.73% on average and PA is 1.35%.. So I guess maybe Illinois was worse! :P Though I didn't own a home in Illinois, so I wouldn't have known that unless I looked it up. lol The tax in PA is about double that of VA, but I don't think it'll be a big deal when it comes time to buy.
Oh, man, traffic in DC is terrible. I was wanting to go there for my birthday (zoo! lol) but we get so turned off by the idea of going anywhere near the city. You almost have to park outside and take the tram in, but we don't know enough about it to get around. So we just avoid DC altogether. lol
All in all, it doesn't sound too bad! I'll keep doing my research on housing/rent and good/bad areas to see if I could find a nice spot. If so, I may be able to convince the hubby to move soon.
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Probably more than a few, and I apologize in advance for them. lol
