Pittsburgh per capita income in top 10 after adjustments (York, Ellwood City: middle-class, sales)

[Copanut]

My Harvard MBA cousin lives in East Pgh on welfare and yes, he's single. Who would marry a loser like that?

Master's degree does not unlock the bank.

[LeftCoastee]

Originally Posted by Katiana

^^^You are jumping to conclusions, LeftCoastee. A master's degree does not always confer a megabuck income. You know nothing about this poster's situation except what she has told us, yet you decide her spouse either needs a new career or they've bought too much house??

I never said a Master's degree equates to megabucks. My wife has a Master's in English and as much as I'd love her to make megabucks with it, she doesn't. I said that someone working three jobs with a Masters degree either needs to change his career path (clearly the one he has is not working for him...she stated he is exhausted) or reduce expenses. Unless this person owns their home outright, would this person not be better off financially if they rented a small apartment and take some pressure off the guy or allow him to make a change?

Sorry, but I stand by what I said. Something is not right with their financial equation. If they are struggling so much in their current situation with her husband taking three jobs, than I'd say they can't afford their current lifestyle. And I am in no way saying they are living high on the hog.

[Hopes]

It's not uncommon for people with masters degrees to change career paths after they discover their idealistic career choice doesn't pay the bills. I know teachers who became nurses. I know social workers who became truck drivers.

As for not being able to earn enough money to compensate for hubby's two part-time jobs, it doesn't have to be an even trade for both part-time jobs. If he could give up just ONE part-time job, that would offer some relief for his exhaustion. One extra evening would make a huge difference for someone who works three jobs.

As for not having family members to watch the children, work night shift. Desperate times call for desperate measures. Your poor husband is working three jobs! Work while he's sleeping. Do ANYTHING to help your family financially. Work in a nursing home as a nurses' aide. Work at McDonalds for goodness sake. Give up your pride. Your husband is exhausted!

[Katarina Witt]

I think you'd be better off financially being a teacher rather than a nurse, especially in PA.

[Tiger Beer]

I have two master's degrees...but neither is financially lucrative.

[Fiddlehead]

Interesting thread.

Affordability is a knot I have yet to unravel! I have an MA and PhD, and my wife has a BA. Together we earn just hair over $100k/yr, with one kid. Yet we live in a 900 sf 2br/ba post WWII shack. After I pay 2 student loans, a $1600 mortgage, child care for my son, credit cards, and and $400/mo. loans for two used cars, we are pretty strapped. We have a tiny house, dorm room furniture, and old cars, but we do have our indulgences. For example, my wife did take 5 years off to be with our son. Those years were like sailing across the N. Atlantic with water 2" below the gunnels. And I took the clan to Ireland last year, and borrowed $10k to do it (professional development-I received a Fulbright, but it did not pay all the freight..). Nothing bad happened, but the last ten years have been stressful and remain so. Here I am trying desperately to get 2 mos. mortgage in the savings and pay off my student loans before I turn 50. Not what I expected.

I do not add this as a whining post-we are fine-but to underscore that the challenges of middle class survival and expectations are complex. Halfwits are selling homes for $800k in Cali and folks with MAs are on food stamps. More than that, effort and education often have little relation to reward these days. Teachers are lower middle class and second-guessed constantly, and high school cheerleaderst turned realtors drive hummers... I know that affordability is not a trivial thing for the middle class, but it seems to me that Pittsburgh offers a pretty attractive ratio of income to expenses for a mere mortal. It is much worse on the West Coast.

One of my primary interests in Pittsburgh is that I have realized we are not making it here in Oregon. I need 10% more family income, 10% lower family expenses, and no more loans of ANY kind.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by Katiana

I think you'd be better off financially being a teacher rather than a nurse, especially in PA.

Only if employed. There are not enough teaching jobs in Pennsylvania for the number of people who have degrees in education---especially primary and soft studies of secondary.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by Fiddlehead

Teachers are lower middle class and second-guessed constantly, and high school cheerleaderst turned realtors drive hummers...

In SW PA, teachers are the upper middle class. Within 10 years, many earn 100k at the school districts. Two married teachers are pulling in near 200k and driving BMWs to work.

Originally Posted by Fiddlehead

I know that affordability is not a trivial thing for the middle class....

I think people's frustrations comes from the fact that today's middle class isn't the middle class standard of living of the 1950s. Back then, the middle class didn't struggle simply to make ends meet and could afford a few luxuries.

Originally Posted by Fiddlehead

....but it seems to me that Pittsburgh offers a pretty attractive ratio of income to expenses for a mere mortal. It is much worse on the West Coast.

Many people who come from an area with a higher cost of living appreciate Pittsburgh; however, those who over-buy on a house complain about our property taxes and struggle financially. That's a huge problem for people coming from the West. A small ranch house can be 500k in the West. Here 500k can buy a mini mansion. Instead of buying a 150k ranch house here, they spend 400k for a larger house than they had in the west and get slammed with Pennsylvania property taxes.

By all means, buy a slightly larger house, but don't get carried away. We've tried warning people in the past, but they look at moving to Pittsburgh as an opportunity to live high on the hog---have property they could never afford in the West. It's wiser to come to Pittsburgh for a financial break, not to continue struggling with a bigger house.

[BrianTH]

I very much agree with Hopes about the danger of people from other markets overbuying in Pittsburgh. Really I think most new people should rent for a while, but if they want to buy they should start on the modest end of what they can afford--as a rough rule of thumb, most people shouldn't be going beyond 2.5-3 times gross household income in purchase price. Which is not to say you can't upgrade a bit if you are coming from an expensive market, but your goal should be to both upgrade a bit and save a bundle.

[hnsq]

Originally Posted by Internet Superman

I do not know where you got your degree in economics or mathematics but here is what I will show you from my last job.

I worked for a machine shop in Export PA.
The machine shop was a UNION shop - which meant that you had to join the union.

So let's figure out my budget.

Right off the bat, you have to have a vehicle.

Let's say you have a decent used truck
$250 a month payment

I seriously hope you aren't spending this much on a truck. I got my last car used for $3000 and it lasted five years. Lets say you can't afford the $3000 all at once, so let's call it $50/mo.

Car Insurance
$800 a year which equals - $75 a month

since you have a $3000 car, it would be foolish to have full coverage. Get the state minimum ($25/mo at most - I paid $180/year with my old car)

so now you are up to $75/mo.

You are going to have to pay for plates, inspection and maintenance and upkeep - let's say $100 a month.. Why so much? Because you need to change the oil every 3,000 miles and you need snow tires for the wintertime and you need to have brakes and tires and all mechanical work done before you get it inspected.

You are still going to need $100+ a month for gasoline - because trucks don't run on air.

Right there is $600 - before you even got to work!

Maintenace is maybe $50/mo (I am estimating high because you have an older car). I really hope you change your own oil/brake pads/etc. I also drove on western PA roads for years without snow tires in a chrysler cirrus and I was fine. Snow tires are a luxury, get rid of them.

We are now up to $125/mo before we get to work.

Now you need a good place to live - let's say $500 a month

Stop living above your means. I live with two roommates and my total bill per month for rent is $270 (and that is in Squirrel Hill too). Since you are tight on money, you can definately do better. Let's say you spend $250/mo. PM me if you need help finding a place for less than $500.

We are now up to $375/mo.

You need some renters insurance - let's say $25 a month

When you get a multi-policy discount through your auto insurance company (adding renters insurance does give you that), the discount covers the full amount of renters insurance for several major insurance companies. This means as a single person with car and renters insurance, your renters insurance is free. Again, PM me if you have questions. I am not giving you any advice that I don't/haven't done myself.

We are still at $375/mo.

You need clothes + work clothes and shoes to work in a machine shop - $50 a month

I work in an office and have to dress up every day. I spend $200/year on clothes max.

Shop at the salvation army for work clothes/boots. (99% of the stuff I find there looks as good as new - just stop by once a week and pick out the best stuff they have). Lets still estimate generously and say $15/mo for clothes.

we are now up to $390/mo.

You need 3 meals a day, and I will be cheap about this because every meal doesn't have to be a cooked meal and I can eat pop tarts for breakfast and two sandwiches and a bag with some potato chips and a can of pop for lunch.
Let's say a grocery bill of $90 a week. Milk, bread, eggs, lunch meat, meat, potato's, a variety of food for quick suppers after you put in a 10 hour day and come home to a empty house.

I see another problem. Cooking meals is much cheaper than your 'quick suppers'. Cook every meal. On your days off, cook enough to last you a full week of lunch/dinners. I eat very well on $190/mo for groceries.

You also won't buy pop/juice/etc. It is a luxury. Drink water.

We are now up to $580/mo.

Now when you come home to this empty house, you still are going to have a phone and internet bill - along with a electric bill and a gas bill and a water bill and a sewage bill and the garbage man and TV cable.
So let's say that is another $450.00

Have you ever really paid your own bills?
Electric: $40/mo
Water: $20/mo
Gas: $100/mo (adjusting winter heating costs over the full year, which I hope you do)
TV/Internet (while a luxury): $35/mo. (Split it with a neighboring apartment. I have always gotten internet, hooked it up to a wireless router and charged a neighbor half my cost/mo so they can use it too.)

We are now up to $775/mo.

Now you go to work and the boss says that you have to join the union and it costs $500 and so they are going to take $100 out of every two weeks pay until they get all their money for their initiation fee, during your 3 months probationary period

I seriously hope you have $500 saved up so you can pay that all at once.

I am going to stop here because I think you get the picture. At this point all of your essentials of living are covered. Lets say you pull in $1100/mo after taxes working a 40 hour week at $10/hr. Every month you have $325 to pay any unforseen expenses (union dues, tools, etc), but what you SHOULD do is put that $325 in the bank every month. Save your money so you can afford a hefty downpayment on your next car, or even start investing it in the stock market. I started investing with only $500 saved and you can turn a good profit in the market with even a low amount of money.


From what you described, you live a higher-class life than me right now. I pay $350/mo for an apartment (all utilities - including cable/internet) included. I have spent $60 on new clothes in the last year.

It doesn't make sense to me that you, who make $10/hr spends more to live, and it more cavilier with his money than me (who makes nearly three times that amount)