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Old 05-19-2010, 07:51 PM
 
21 posts, read 43,790 times
Reputation: 18
Is apathy a problem just particular to Pittsburgh......I think that if an issue doesn't directly impact a person life in the immediate future then people are indifferent. So when redeveloping any city people just don't necessarily see the particular concern for them and their family they are just trying to earn a living and then balance out the rest of their lives.

It might be that folks don't see economic development is beneficial for their quality of life or shortsighted about what the benefits are or just plain cynical. I find this not just on the city level but also within companies, schools and just about any other community or institution you can think of.
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Old 05-19-2010, 08:16 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
3,703 posts, read 3,138,721 times
Reputation: 1692
Detroit needs to get rid of the corruption that fills most of the city's government. That's also what is holding it back. In a year they sent a mayor and the council president to jail. Detroit is also a very segregated city with blacks and whites having a dislike and distrust of each other you probably can't find in another Northern area (started with the 1950s and the race riots in 1967)
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Old 05-19-2010, 08:33 PM
 
Location: 22.1667 N, 113.5500 E
11,798 posts, read 17,488,370 times
Reputation: 5587
I'm from MI.

Pittsburgh is nothing short of AMAZING in a comparison kind of way.

Sure, the auto industry got some stimulus money...but Detroit didn't. While some Detroiters are 'hoping' for some recovery...Pittsburgh is significantly more vibrant, more safer, more alive, more interesting, more beautiful, more dynamic, more everything.

Detroit on the other hand...is a complete mess. The city can't recover...mostly because people from Metro Detroit generally HATE Detroit, the city. Anyone with money, moved outside of the city into the suburbs, and wants nothing to do with anything within the Detroit City Limits. It's been that way since the late 1960s...racial polarization from racial riots. It's still a very segregated city. Additionally, when I grew up in MI during the 1980s...you couldn't have a day go by without reading the Detroit Free Press and seeing crack epidemic stories everyday.

If Detroit had ANY hope whatsoever...ANY...I would love to live back in my home state in a city environment. But, it doesn't. I think a person really has to know Detroit, to really know how hopeless it is.

Pittsburgh, on the other hand, I LIKE IT! I wish I were from Pittsburgh, and not from Michigan myself! Pittsburgh is the closest city I can find to MI that I actually quite like and could see myself living in.

Even reading the Pittsburgh forum and Detroit forum...I read things everyday that I like and agree with from Pittsburgh people. When I read the Detroit ones, I cringe with the 'did he just say that?' response.
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Old 05-20-2010, 04:49 AM
 
367 posts, read 531,730 times
Reputation: 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockLobster View Post

Certainly ' Apathy' has been a common topic from time to time on this forum and in general terms as it relates to our little burgh nestled here in the upper Ohio Valley. In my mind apathy has given our mayor half of a cat's nine lives as head of Grant Street. And I saw a form of apathy Monday night at the public forum on the Civic Arena.

Apathy is a natural thing that comes and goes in varying levels. Those that are able to push it aside and muster the motivation, energy levels and goal setting, are generally the ones to move to the 'cream of the top'

Pop City the web site has a great article that helps to showcase a city hard hit with economic woes. A city that has had a real bout with apathy as well. A city that has been the national moniker for a dying and out place to be.

Detroit is dealing with it's problems and learning how to grow from the very troubles that have dogged the motor city. While the federal stimulus has no doubt pumped huge money back into the number one industry in that city (something Pittsburgh never got from the fed's with the demise of the steel industry )
Detroit has shown amazing creativity in dealing with many of the urban decay issues we face in Pittsburgh. There exist in Detroit a hunger to improve city life and to bring the city back to a level of national and international dominance. Apathy is being thrown aside and the people are working together to make great strides. I think Pittsburgh should take a clue in a general sense. Yes, there are some great efforts at making Pittsburgh a better place. But we still have a large population that I believe is APATHETIC on many levels. Check out the article from our own Pop City.


What Detroit Has That Pittsburgh Wants. Really.
ELAINE LABALME
TUESDAY, MAY 18, 2010

What Detroit Has That Pittsburgh Wants. Really.
"Apathyburgh" = Pittsburgh..............hardly!
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Old 05-20-2010, 09:51 PM
 
Location: Perry South, Pittsburgh, PA
65 posts, read 74,372 times
Reputation: 66
I think that Pittsburgh has a lot going for it that Detroit doesn't. I've never seen Detroit, so I'm basing this off what I've heard, read, and know about it vs. what I've seen going on here in Pittsburgh.

1. "Greening". Pittsburgh has the most green space of any city I've ever seen. Detroit may have urban gardens but as someone else mentioned, you'd have to watch half the population move out to get that much arable land inside the Pittsburgh limits (short of terracing the cliffs!), and besides that - everyone here has their own garden! Half my neighbors grow more veggies than they can eat. The Pittsburgh Project has a community garden down the street from me, and I'm sure that there are others.

2. Tech. Pittsburgh already has tech. education, we have museums and science centers, and we have tech jobs. Detroit had cars. They're catching up to us, not the other way 'round. They've also got a higher unemployment rate while Pittsburgh was saved the worst of the recession...

3. Transportation. In case the announcements everywhere haven't gotten enough attention, the Port Authority is reworking things... Pittsburgh is rough on transport because of the bridges and tunnels. Buses work and we have plenty of them, although I'd like to see a high-speed rail line put in so I'll give Detroit points for that.

4. Art. We've got loads of art! Want more art? Buy some paint. Also note: "the urban canvasses created by Detroit artists from the blight and desolation of their city". I don't think we have enough blight and desolation for that kind of art!

5. Food... I know nothing about food. I do know that, due to #1, I'm eating pretty well.

So what's Detroit got that we ain't got? Nothin'!

Some of us are still apathetic but that's a national problem, not local. I know people across the country who won't pick trash off the street. "It's not my problem; I didn't drop it there." The only cure for apathy is to provide motivation, and great motivation comes in the form of living your own life as an example for others. If you think Pittsburgh is doing so poorly, do something about it! I'm volunteering with The Pittsburgh Project this summer. Wanna join me?
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Old 05-20-2010, 10:38 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
3,703 posts, read 3,138,721 times
Reputation: 1692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faerunner View Post
3. Transportation. In case the announcements everywhere haven't gotten enough attention, the Port Authority is reworking things... Pittsburgh is rough on transport because of the bridges and tunnels. Buses work and we have plenty of them, although I'd like to see a high-speed rail line put in so I'll give Detroit points for that.
Detroit is actually one of the most congested metros in the country because of the major sprawl in an effort to stay away from all the problems of Detroit as possible.
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Old 05-20-2010, 11:39 PM
 
Location: 22.1667 N, 113.5500 E
11,798 posts, read 17,488,370 times
Reputation: 5587
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faerunner View Post
I think that Pittsburgh has a lot going for it that Detroit doesn't. I've never seen Detroit, so I'm basing this off what I've heard, read, and know about it vs. what I've seen going on here in Pittsburgh.

1. "Greening". Pittsburgh has the most green space of any city I've ever seen. Detroit may have urban gardens but as someone else mentioned, you'd have to watch half the population move out to get that much arable land inside the Pittsburgh limits (short of terracing the cliffs!), and besides that - everyone here has their own garden! Half my neighbors grow more veggies than they can eat. The Pittsburgh Project has a community garden down the street from me, and I'm sure that there are others.

2. Tech. Pittsburgh already has tech. education, we have museums and science centers, and we have tech jobs. Detroit had cars. They're catching up to us, not the other way 'round. They've also got a higher unemployment rate while Pittsburgh was saved the worst of the recession...

3. Transportation. In case the announcements everywhere haven't gotten enough attention, the Port Authority is reworking things... Pittsburgh is rough on transport because of the bridges and tunnels. Buses work and we have plenty of them, although I'd like to see a high-speed rail line put in so I'll give Detroit points for that.

4. Art. We've got loads of art! Want more art? Buy some paint. Also note: "the urban canvasses created by Detroit artists from the blight and desolation of their city". I don't think we have enough blight and desolation for that kind of art!

5. Food... I know nothing about food. I do know that, due to #1, I'm eating pretty well.

So what's Detroit got that we ain't got? Nothin'!

Some of us are still apathetic but that's a national problem, not local. I know people across the country who won't pick trash off the street. "It's not my problem; I didn't drop it there." The only cure for apathy is to provide motivation, and great motivation comes in the form of living your own life as an example for others. If you think Pittsburgh is doing so poorly, do something about it! I'm volunteering with The Pittsburgh Project this summer. Wanna join me?
Greening in pathetic in Detroit. Mostly it is just abandoned and dilipitated...weeds growing wildly in most places...and just completely flat, flat, flat.

Transportation in Detroit is pretty much non-existant except for some buses. Actually because Detroit sucks so badly...traffic moves pretty well in the city streets...people are too afraid to drive into Detroit for one. Highways are congested though, as people are trying to drive as fast as possible through Detroit...less they god-forbid, break-down, and have a fear of getting their car stripped of all its part before they can get back to their car. (Yeah, REGULARLY I use to see completely stripped down cars sitting on the sides of the highway throughout Detroit city limits.

Food is the only thing that is kind of good around Detroit...Polish, Greek, and Arabic....because of their large populations...but most of that is more Metro Detroit as opposed to Detroit city, except for Greektown in Detroit.

Generally though...Pittsburgh is WAY WAY WAY more everything in every imagineable way than Detroit.

Since Detroit is autos...they strongly built everything auto-centric...no trains/subways/etc...except for a recent little (People-Builder tram between key buildings for people who fly in on business). But generally speaking, Detroit is a great example of how NOT to build a city - car-centric.

As things went to hell in Detroit..and everything was flat and car-centric...they just built in the suburbs, and drove right on out...neighborhoods are pretty much non-existant throughout Detroit...everything is huge roads throughout the city - i.e. horrible for walking anywhere, huge parking lots throughout the suburbs, vast space everywhere...isolated houses...or dilipitated houses.

Last edited by Tiger Beer; 05-21-2010 at 01:01 AM..
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Old 05-21-2010, 12:02 AM
 
Location: Perry South, Pittsburgh, PA
475 posts, read 97,168 times
Reputation: 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradjl2009 View Post
Detroit is actually one of the most congested metros in the country because of the major sprawl in an effort to stay away from all the problems of Detroit as possible.
Hell, I'm at least 6 hours from Detroit and I still don't feel far enough away.
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Old 05-21-2010, 06:19 AM
 
20,274 posts, read 17,323,553 times
Reputation: 2803
Just keep in mind that Pittsburgh has like a 25-year head start on Detroit, since our economic collapse was in the early-mid 1980s.
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Old 05-21-2010, 07:23 AM
 
Location: New Kensington (Parnassus) ,Pa
2,424 posts, read 756,951 times
Reputation: 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradjl2009 View Post
Detroit (especially the city itself) is a much bigger mess now than Pittsburgh was in the 80's IMO. The majority of the city is abandoned or in total decay and Pittsburgh has nowhere near the racial, budget, and infrastructure problems they do.
Detroit was a mess even before the demise of the auto industry. I don't think they ever recovered from the 67 riots when many fled the city for the suburbs.

Last edited by aveojohn; 05-21-2010 at 07:38 AM..
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