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I would love if you did. I would love it if you responded to what I actually wrote as opposed to what I can only assume must be the voices in your head.
Alas, to this point there is no sign of such a response anywhere on the horizon.
OK, wait, you want to abolish the 14th amendment??? which section causes you the most pain? Let me guess... Section 1, right?
Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
Section 2. Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.
Section 3. No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may, by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.
Section 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.
Lets see, the first section serves absolutely no purpose anymore, except to promote illegal immigration. So yes, we can rip that part out.
The second section is basically unnecessary, because the 15th, 19th and 26th amendment sort of supercede it anyway.
The third section is the perfect example of the federal government not trusting its citizens, and imposing restrictions on the democratic process to try to prevent its own demise. If a nation must be held together by force then is it really a nation? That goes entirely against the principles of democracy, which is by the consent of the governed.
The fourth section is also basically unnecessary.
The fifth section is meaningless. So please, rip that sucker out of the constitution. It shouldn't have been there to begin with, the radical government abused the military after the civil war to push its agenda.
A modern-day equivalent would be if the democrats(under Obama) passed univeral-healthcare, which would later be deemed unconstitutional by the supreme court. Then attempted to pass an amendment to the constitution to make it constitutional, but failed because of the red southern states. So it then declared military rule over the entire south, marched in tens of thousands of troops, took away its representation in the senate, replaced its state legislators or barred the opposing legislators from voting. Then denied voting rights in the states to all but universal healthcare supporters. Then passed the 28th amendment providing universal healthcare as being part of the constitution.
Should we just accept this new 28th amendment as constitutional. Should the supreme court ignore any case that moves to purport its unconstitutionality(since it is in the constitution, and thus can't be unconstitutional)? Should the only way to remove this new amendment be to pass a new amendment(which would require 3/4ths of the states to ratify and be basically impossible to pass)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_Ryder
Anyway, If the 14th simply disappears with no valid replacement we might as well dissolve the federal government completely and allow each state to be it's own sovereignty. As appealing as that may sound to some, and at a certain level to myself as well, it would be disastrous because we've managed to make enough enemies who would like nothing more than to see the US fracture into smaller and more easily digestible pieces.
That is utter nonsense. First, the United States existed for 80 years before the 14th amendment, and would have continued to exist if it hadn't been for the constant unconstitutional acts being drawn up by the Congress. These people from Massachusetts or South Carolina couldn't help but want to put their noses in everyone elses business, and believed the federal government should be used to further their own agenda. Totally disregarding the will of the people or the will of the other states(sound familiar?).
Secondly, even if the United States was to fracture into smaller pieces. What does that really mean? Is Iran going to come conquer California? Is North Korea going to take over Texas? Don't be silly. Nothing would actually change at all. The constitution clearly says that the states must defend each other, the military would not be changed at all by repealing the 14th amendment. The effect of taking away the 14th amendment would sort of make this country into a slightly more tightly-bound European Union. Where each state would have free travel between borders, free trade, the same currency, and mutual defense. But each state would be far more free to provide its own citizens with what they want, without the intrusiveness of other states trying to tell them what is and what isn't acceptable. This would leave us all more free.
New York city and Chicago wants to ban guns? They can't under the 14th amendment.
Texas wants to ban abortion? They can't under the 14th amendment.
Corporate personhood? Upheld under the 14th amendment.
As someone mentioned before, 3/5ths of all supreme court decisions come down to the 14th amendment. This single amendment has had the largest single effect on our lives, and the amendment isn't even constitutional.
The next time Texas gets into a supreme court battle over anything, be it sodomy, religion, immigration, etc. Why don't they just tell the federal government they have absolutely no authority because the 14th amendment doesn't exist. Then this whole thing can be worked out.
Uh, well then, I think it could be equally argued that the South is oppressing the North. Who's coming up with most of the conservative policies? It isn't the North.
I guess if some Southerners feel better by seeing themselves as victims, they're free to do that, but it's not the healthiest way to live.
I agree. What area has the fattest, most unhealthy residents (driving up my insurance premiums)? The South. What area has the most people on welfare (driving up my taxes)? The South. What area has the higher crime rates? The South. What area has the worst rated schools? Again, the South.
If the 13 states of the CSA secede again, I'll bet the rest of the country would be glad to see them go.
Fascinating. Due process and equal protection serve "no purpose anymore?"
Okay.
I'm going to other threads and talk to real people.
Look, the states already have those provisions in their state constitutions. The 14th amendment was merely designed to prevent the southern states from depriving ex-slaves due-process rights, and also the other protections under the bill of rights(freedom of speech/religion/etc).
The country existed for a very long time before the 14th amendment. Were there rampant abuses of due-process and other rights during that time(other than slavery which existed across the country, not just in the south)? No.
If there had been, people wouldn't have been streaming into America by the thousands.
I do not believe that in the absence of the 14th amendment that there would be violations of due process or other inherent rights.
Well not anymore than the abuses that occured even with the 14th amendment. Such as the state constantly putting innocent black men in prison through racist juries, to work on penal farms for the state, basically in effect as slaves(involuntary servitude). Or cities like Chicago and New York depriving people of their second amendment right to bear arms, by either attempting to ban them outright or by placing excessive and undue burden on individuals attempting to acquire a firearm(also unconstitutional).
Oh and btw, if you didn't already know. There are still prison farms today in many states, and many states are calling for their revival to help pay for the costs of so many prisoners(which is all constitutional). This labor windfall would certainly give the state more of an incentive to imprison more people for longer. If you don't understand what I mean, go read a little about the abuses by the government(and the unconstitutionality) in DUI cases. DUI's are a huge profit scheme by the local and state governments.
Last edited by Redshadowz; 07-30-2010 at 05:37 PM..
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