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Other people on the thread did say so. Even the title implies it.
And I realize that you pointed out about NC in 1993 finally changing its laws. I simply tried to explain more clearly what I was trying to say in response to your question. I'm not pounding that point out TO YOU, I'm pounding that point out to people who post as if Sharia law is in the Stone Ages, and we are so superior. I think it's important that we recognize how recently we've progressed on this issue, and that we still need to make further progress. We don't have the right to be arrogant towards the rest of the world when it comes to marital rape laws.
Sharia laws are representing the stone age.
A woman is her father than her husband property.
Sharia law instruct the husband to beat his wife, and even specify the size of rod to be used.
Sharia law consider the kids the property of the husband.
A Husband can get his kids a passport in Muslim countries without the signature or knowledge of the wife, and he can also beat them as much as he wants.
If you steel you will get your hand cut.
And of course stoning is still an acceptable punishment applied mostly to women.
What would you call that? Not stone age?
I would like to make myself clear NOT ALL MUSLIMS are practicing or supporting Sharia laws, and we all should join them and help them get rid of these laws.
Muslims against Sharia Laws. Muslims Against Sharia
from their site
The need for reform
Islam, in its present form, is not compatible with principles of freedom and democracy. Twenty-first century Muslims have two options: we can continue the barbaric policies of the seventh century perpetuated by ...Yassir Arafat, ... Osama bin Laden, Muslim Brotherhood, al-Qaeda, ...Hamas, ... etc., leading to a global war between Dar al-Islam (Islamic World) and Dar al-Harb (non-Islamic World), or we can reform Islam to keep our rich cultural heritage and to cleanse our religion from the reviled relics of the past. We, as Muslims who desire to live in harmony with people of other religions, agnostics, and atheists choose the latter option. We can no longer allow Islamic extremists to use our religion as a weapon. We must protect future generations of Muslims from being brainwashed by the Islamic radicals. If we do not stop the spread of Islamic fundamentalism, our children will become homicidal zombies.
Their views on Sharia is very clear Sharia Laws need to be abolished.
Because he is a Muslim. If he had any other affiliation he would have being charge.
Where are all the feminist organizations? If he was a white man in the south they would have been all over the case.
He was charged.
There are criminal charges he has to answer.
This ruling was not in a criminal court, and had NO bearing on his guilt or innocence in a criminal court.
That 17 years ago it was legal in some places in the United States to rape your wife?
Your argument is that since we woke up and changed our laws, that the rest of the world should do exactly as we've done. Because we are so civilized? Of course, your argument ignores the fact that men in this country continue to rape their wives, and feel entitled to do so. And they aren't all Muslims, most of the husband-rapists in the United States are Christians.
It's arrogant of people to expect the world to do as we say, not as we do. And even if we've managed to change the laws, the attitudes that are problematic do remain. And the attitudes that need to be changed are not just Muslim attitudes, but Christian as well.
Let me just correct you first about Jewish law.
You are not aware of facts either. Jews have Rabanic law that concerned family law, dealing with divorce even in Israel, but and that is what important. If a Jew (even in Israel) do not want to go through Rabanic law, they don't have too.
In any case the Rabbi just give them a religious divorce, they don't interfere with money issues, or in case of abuse of any kind the police is involved. The Rabbi can help with counseling much like a priest would, but it is the choice of the couple whether to use or not.
A woman that her husband abuse her would get a retraining order from a judge through the police. The Rabanic law would have noting to do with it.
The government has quietly sanctioned the powers for sharia judges to rule on cases ranging from divorce and financial disputes to those involving domestic violence.
Rulings issued by a network of five sharia courts are enforceable with the full power of the judicial system, through the county courts or High Court.
Sharia laws prefer the man over the woman. more....
From your link ....
Under the act, the sharia courts are classified as arbitration tribunals. The rulings of arbitration tribunals are binding in law, provided that both parties in the dispute agree to give it the power to rule on their case.
Therefore, by their very nature, use has to be voluntary and can only apply to civil matters.
Sharia law instruct the husband to beat his wife, and even specify the size of rod to be used.
Sharia law consider the kids the property of the husband.
A Husband can get his kids a passport in Muslim countries without the signature or knowledge of the wife, and he can also beat them as much as he wants.
If you steel you will get your hand cut.
And of course stoning is still an acceptable punishment applied mostly to women.
What would you call that? Not stone age?
I would like to make myself clear NOT ALL MUSLIMS are practicing or supporting Sharia laws, and we all should join them and help them get rid of these laws.
Muslims against Sharia Laws. Muslims Against Sharia
from their site
The need for reform
Islam, in its present form, is not compatible with principles of freedom and democracy. Twenty-first century Muslims have two options: we can continue the barbaric policies of the seventh century perpetuated by ...Yassir Arafat, ... Osama bin Laden, Muslim Brotherhood, al-Qaeda, ...Hamas, ... etc., leading to a global war between Dar al-Islam (Islamic World) and Dar al-Harb (non-Islamic World), or we can reform Islam to keep our rich cultural heritage and to cleanse our religion from the reviled relics of the past. We, as Muslims who desire to live in harmony with people of other religions, agnostics, and atheists choose the latter option. We can no longer allow Islamic extremists to use our religion as a weapon. We must protect future generations of Muslims from being brainwashed by the Islamic radicals. If we do not stop the spread of Islamic fundamentalism, our children will become homicidal zombies.
Their views on Sharia is very clear Sharia Laws need to be abolished.
The idea that men own their wives and can rape them would not be from the Stone Age. It would be the law in the United States until quite recently. Even today, there are several states where legally marital rape is not considered rape, it's considered abuse. A significantly lesser charge. I think we need to address the problems within the United States legal code before we start lecturing the rest of the world on how women should be treated. We really don't stand out as an example for the fair and equal treatment of women
Marital rape is the most common form of rape in the United States. I can assure you, the majority of those raping their wives are not Muslims. Marital rape is also the most under-reported class of rape in the United States. Women are VERY reluctant to prosecute their husbands for rape. For social reasons, emotional reasons, and economic reasons, women are silent about being raped, especially when their husband is the perpetrator.
The idea that men own their wives and can rape them would not be from the Stone Age. It would be the law in the United States until quite recently. Even today, there are several states where legally marital rape is not considered rape, it's considered abuse. A significantly lesser charge. I think we need to address the problems within the United States legal code before we start lecturing the rest of the world on how women should be treated. We really don't stand out as an example for the fair and equal treatment of women
Marital rape is the most common form of rape in the United States. I can assure you, the majority of those raping their wives are not Muslims. Marital rape is also the most under-reported class of rape in the United States. Women are VERY reluctant to prosecute their husbands for rape. For social reasons, emotional reasons, and economic reasons, women are silent about being raped, especially when their husband is the perpetrator.
"we really don't stand out as an example for the fair and equal treatment of women". Really? What an incredible stretch.
I can drive. I can wear my hair loose. I can buy and drink wine. I can have a job. I can go to college. I can have a career. I can buy birth control. I can have an abortion. I can have sex with whomever I choose. I can decide who I will marry, if I will marry. I can get a divorce. I can expect to receive a fair (and lets be honest here, a mother biased) judgement from the courts regarding child custody. I can speak to men. Men will listen to what I have to say. If I am raped I don't need four independent male witnesses to verify my word. If I am raped I have no fear of being sentenced to jail, corporeal punishment or death. I can buy a plane ticket to anywhere in the world without my fathers/husband/brothers permission. I can buy property.
And yet the US law and Sharia law are equavilant?!
"we really don't stand out as an example for the fair and equal treatment of women". Really? What an incredible stretch.
I can drive. I can wear my hair loose. I can buy and drink wine. I can have a job. I can go to college. I can have a career. I can buy birth control. I can have an abortion. I can have sex with whomever I choose. I can decide who I will marry, if I will marry. I can get a divorce. I can expect to receive a fair (and lets be honest here, a mother biased) judgement from the courts regarding child custody. I can speak to men. Men will listen to what I have to say. If I am raped I don't need four independent male witnesses to verify my word. If I am raped I have no fear of being sentenced to jail, corporeal punishment or death. I can buy a plane ticket to anywhere in the world without my fathers/husband/brothers permission. I can buy property.
And yet the US law and Sharia law are equavilant?!
I didn't say Sharia law and US law are equivalent. I said that the United States doesn't stand out as an example for the fair and equal treatment of women. I believe that currently 33 states don't prosecute marital rape as rape, but instead as abuse. That's wonderful because 17 years ago, not all the states would prosecute marital rape at all. But is that fair and equal treatment of women? How much do women earn opposed to men? Less than 75 cents for every dollar a man earns? Fair and equal? Glass ceilings? Fair and equal? Let's look at the threads about Kagan and Sotomayor's nominations to the Supreme Court, and compare them with Roberts. Did many people post about Robert's appearance? Kagan and Sotomayor have been ridiculed and demeaned and insulted over and over and over for their looks. Fair and equal? How about the Catholic Church's treatment of women? Are the nuns treated fairly and equally? Are they treated the same as priests?
I didn't say Sharia law and US law are equivalent. NOT ONCE, did I? Where did you get that idea?
I'm not defending Sharia law in any way, shape or form. But Sharia Law isn't one set of laws. There are several sets of Sharia laws out there, each distinct from the other. Like Alabama laws are different from Minnesota laws are different from California laws. For the sake of accuracy, we should know what we're talking about, and make clear the distinctions. Otherwise, we are being prejudiced.
Generally, I find that Sharia laws are very unsympathetic to women, and I am very opposed to them. But they aren't being introduced into the American legal system. The American legal system isn't being corrupted by Sharia Law. If American citizens wish to settle their differences outside the legal system, by arbitration or counseling, it should be up to those American citizens to decide if religion, any religion, is going to be a part of that process. And as I pointed out in a previous post, a judge's job isn't to listen to only one side in a case.
Again, if Sheila runs over her husband, Ralph, and Ralph gets a restraining order against her because of the danger she poses. When Ralph seeks to make that restraining order permanent, should the judge consider whether Sheila continues to pose a danger, or not? Because that's what this judge did. He was asked to rule in a case about a restraining order, not in a criminal case, and he considered whether the husband still posed a threat to his wife. I said in an earlier post, I thought he should have given more weight to the wife's trauma, when he considered extending the restraining order, so I agree with the appeals court that overturned this judge's ruling.
And I said in an earlier post, that this is an example of our court system working, that the judge's insensitive ruling was overturned.
The religion of this couple is part of this case, but in the same way that religion is part of the case in the Warren Jeffs prosecutions regarding the FLDS church. It may be politically correct to bash the Muslim faith right now, but if you're going to bash a faith because of how it treats women, I think it's important to consider how other faiths treat women as well, and not just how other faiths treat women, but also how our society treats women.
WRONG!!! No Conservative I know approves of stoning woman to death or raping them because they feel they own them, or honor killings, or arraigned marriages. Ugh sicking and thread about a very serious issues gets dragged in the abyss of crap.
And no liberals approve of any of these either. Yet it is "received wisdom" in many of these threads that somehow, liberals are "supporters" of Islam and Shari'a.
So finally here we are both crystal clear that there is much of Islam and shari'a that is repugnant to western democratic traditions.... regardless of whether that tradition leans right or left.
Now... with that school of red herring and army of straw men out of the way, let's return to my comment.
It is simply a statement of unassailable fact that Islam is a conservative, right wing ideology, and shares far more in common with Christian social conservatism than any socially liberal tradition. It is excruciatingly anti-gay, anti-abortion, anti-feminist and with the exception of its intolerance of usury it is deeply pro-capitalist. They both aggressively promote "traditional family values," oppose the separation of church and state, support the prohibition of drugs, prostitution and extra-marital sex, and support censorship of pornography or other "indecent" material. Muslims unashamedly borrow, adapt and republish Christian creationist propaganda, share a nearly identical set of theological dogmas regarding salvation and eternal punishment/reward, and sharply distinguish between what they believe to be the divinely appointed roles of men and women.
To the limited extent that arguments against shari'a are not also arguments against Christian social conservatism, this is primarily because contemporary "social conservatives" have actually embraced positions that a few generations ago would have been considered unforgivably liberal. It is the success of liberalism in the west that makes shari'a as generally objectionable as it is.
That 17 years ago it was legal in some places in the United States to rape your wife?
Your argument is that since we woke up and changed our laws, that the rest of the world should do exactly as we've done. Because we are so civilized? Of course, your argument ignores the fact that men in this country continue to rape their wives, and feel entitled to do so. And they aren't all Muslims, most of the husband-rapists in the United States are Christians.
It's arrogant of people to expect the world to do as we say, not as we do. And even if we've managed to change the laws, the attitudes that are problematic do remain. And the attitudes that need to be changed are not just Muslim attitudes, but Christian as well.
I have already explained this. It really matters not when the law was created, it was created. I stand by what I said, we have every right to be appalled at this behavior and that does not make us arrogant. Oh and rape is about power, not religion.
I didn't say Sharia law and US law are equivalent. I said that the United States doesn't stand out as an example for the fair and equal treatment of women. I believe that currently 33 states don't prosecute marital rape as rape, but instead as abuse. That's wonderful because 17 years ago, not all the states would prosecute marital rape at all. But is that fair and equal treatment of women? How much do women earn opposed to men? Less than 75 cents for every dollar a man earns? Fair and equal? Glass ceilings? Fair and equal? Let's look at the threads about Kagan and Sotomayor's nominations to the Supreme Court, and compare them with Roberts. Did many people post about Robert's appearance? Kagan and Sotomayor have been ridiculed and demeaned and insulted over and over and over for their looks. Fair and equal? How about the Catholic Church's treatment of women? Are the nuns treated fairly and equally? Are they treated the same as priests?
I didn't say Sharia law and US law are equivalent. NOT ONCE, did I? Where did you get that idea?
I'm not defending Sharia law in any way, shape or form. But Sharia Law isn't one set of laws. There are several sets of Sharia laws out there, each distinct from the other. Like Alabama laws are different from Minnesota laws are different from California laws. For the sake of accuracy, we should know what we're talking about, and make clear the distinctions. Otherwise, we are being prejudiced.
Generally, I find that Sharia laws are very unsympathetic to women, and I am very opposed to them. But they aren't being introduced into the American legal system. The American legal system isn't being corrupted by Sharia Law. If American citizens wish to settle their differences outside the legal system, by arbitration or counseling, it should be up to those American citizens to decide if religion, any religion, is going to be a part of that process. And as I pointed out in a previous post, a judge's job isn't to listen to only one side in a case.
Again, if Sheila runs over her husband, Ralph, and Ralph gets a restraining order against her because of the danger she poses. When Ralph seeks to make that restraining order permanent, should the judge consider whether Sheila continues to pose a danger, or not? Because that's what this judge did. He was asked to rule in a case about a restraining order, not in a criminal case, and he considered whether the husband still posed a threat to his wife. I said in an earlier post, I thought he should have given more weight to the wife's trauma, when he considered extending the restraining order, so I agree with the appeals court that overturned this judge's ruling.
And I said in an earlier post, that this is an example of our court system working, that the judge's insensitive ruling was overturned.
The religion of this couple is part of this case, but in the same way that religion is part of the case in the Warren Jeffs prosecutions regarding the FLDS church. It may be politically correct to bash the Muslim faith right now, but if you're going to bash a faith because of how it treats women, I think it's important to consider how other faiths treat women as well, and not just how other faiths treat women, but also how our society treats women.
I don't believe any said that US stands out as anything. This thread was about how US judge that made a screwed up ruling and how Sharia law should never be considered here. You are the one that made it about something else. Fact is that Sharia law and US law are NOTHING alike.
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