Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Suppose a person goes into a bakery owned by a gay man and orders a cake with slurs on it offensive to him. Does he have the right to refuse?
I think the whole "right to do this, right to do that" thinking just leads us nowhere. Instead of thinking in terms of what we have the right to do, we should think in terms of what makes sense, from a business perspective and a common sense perspective.
So let's ask a new question: is it really beneficial for this couple as a business to bring their personal beliefs into their business decisions, especially when it risks hampering business? Is that really being a professional?
I am gay and if I had a cupcake business I would follow through with an order that asked me to write "All F*GS will go to HELL". Would I enjoy it? No, I'd be cringing the whole way through, but as a professional and because I'm a business and not the morality police, I would do it. It's not my place to tell other people what to believe, end of story. If they want to write that on their cupcakes, as long as they are paying me the same rate as every other customer, then I have no professional reason to refuse.
And actually, nobody has to go into a store to harass anybody.
Quote:
Indianapolis Mayor Greg Ballard's spokesman says the bakery's actions are "unacceptable. They are in the City Market, it's an equal accommodations establishment." The mayor's deputy chief of staff Robert Vane says the city has begun an investigation into the discrimination.
In the meantime The Scotty Show, a local radio program, is hosting the 1st Annual Gay Cupcake Party this Friday in response. Says host DJ Rayne: "It was definitely one of those things that hit home, you know our position with the gay community is so strong, we definitely want to be a part of it as much as we can, this had to be brought to light."
I think the whole "right to do this, right to do that" thinking just leads us nowhere. Instead of thinking in terms of what we have the right to do, we should think in terms of what makes sense, from a business perspective and a common sense perspective.
So let's ask a new question: is it really beneficial for this couple as a business to bring their personal beliefs into their business decisions, especially when it risks hampering business? Is that really being a professional?
I am gay and if I had a cupcake business I would follow through with an order that asked me to write "All F*GS will go to HELL". Would I enjoy it? No, I'd be cringing the whole way through, but as a professional and because I'm a business and not the morality police, I would do it. It's not my place to tell other people what to believe, end of story. If they want to write that on their cupcakes, as long as they are paying me the same rate as every other customer, then I have no professional reason to refuse.
If that couple wants to refuse business, that is their choice to do so. Their business will live or die based on their decisions.
As for you deciding to make some cupcakes for the Westboro "baptists" ...hey...your choice. Personally I'd tell them where to stick their cupcakes...and I'd have the right to do so.
Now....if that business, or your business, or my business received gov't money to do the job...well, that's a different story. But as a private business, this country is built on the idea that you can run it as you see fit.
As someone pointed out before, a business does not have the right to refuse service to anyone they so desire.
The Federal Civil Rights Act guarantees all people the right to "full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, and accommodations of any place of public accommodation, without discrimination or segregation on the ground of race, color, religion, or national origin."
The fact is that they refused to make these cupcakes to someone based on their behavior which is not something that is protected under Federal Civil Rights laws. I applaud these business owners for showing some integrity in their beliefs. I do not condone the refusal of service based on race or gender or religion or any of the other items as outlined above.
Do you or anyone have a link that shows they make cupcakes? A catalogue, menu, price list, etc.? Have there been any previous customers who went to Just Cookies and got cupcakes speaking out about this? My understanding is that this is a cookies only specialty shop called “Just Cookiesâ€. The several camera footages I’ve seen of the establishment have only shown cookies.
Oh, no the business does not have that right. See below. This particular scenario may not apply, but the statement that a business can refuse service to whomever it chooses is incorrect. We had a civil rights movement over that issue.
I stand corrected on the legal basis.
I wonder if the protection extends to the services and products requested? Does the business have the right to refuse to fulfill a particular service or product requested because the business owner/operator doesn't 'like' what it represents (but it is otherwise within the realm of what they could offer) while still fulfilling other services or products requested?
I wonder if the protection extends to the services and products requested? Does the business have the right to refuse to fulfill a particular service or product requested because the business owner/operator doesn't 'like' what it represents (but it is otherwise within the realm of what they could offer) while still fulfilling other services or products requested?
To force everyone to accept an abnormal lifestyle as normal. It's not.
Nobody said anyone had to accept a lifestyle. That's the dent in your brain. You look at gays and see a lifestyle, yet fail to see a human being or a citizen with equal rights. That's the point, and that's why social conservatives selling their ridiculous arguments are laughed off stage. In warped irrational defense of their perceived righteousness, they've divorced themselves from reverence for life, liberty, and the very freedom that protects & defends their existence.
I detest KKK but the moment they posture themselves in word or deed to rob others of their rights they negate the basis of their own existence and therefore disqualify themselves from defense. They are not Americans because they mean to live outside the bounds of the constitution. Equally, I will defend any citizens right to free speech. I refuse to defend anyones right to lie.
I don't know. It is a question I am pondering and offering for discussion. Is it acceptable to refuse to provide a specific service or product while still providing other services or products to a protected class of individuals?
Looked at another way: is it legal for someone to refuse to make a rainbow cupcake for a homosexual because one does not like what it represents but accept serving the same individual something more 'neutral' like coffee?
I wonder if the protection extends to the services and products requested? Does the business have the right to refuse to fulfill a particular service or product requested because the business owner/operator doesn't 'like' what it represents (but it is otherwise within the realm of what they could offer) while still fulfilling other services or products requested?
Yes, I think they can. I remember a local printer declined making laminated copies of the Negro National Anthem for an event because he didn't believe in the concept of black people having or needing their own national Anthem. I think a business has the right to decline any special order request.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
