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Old 10-27-2010, 04:52 AM
 
Location: Texas
14,076 posts, read 20,574,589 times
Reputation: 7807

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While much of that is true, the sad part is that so many people seem to think that voting that other bunch of corporate toadies back into office is going to change something.
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Old 10-27-2010, 05:09 AM
 
Location: San Diego
2,311 posts, read 2,835,150 times
Reputation: 893
Quote:
Originally Posted by OC Investor2 View Post
I think the author is under the mistaken belief that Obama was elected King/Benevolent Dictator. He was elected POTUS and he has to work with the congress and others to accomplich policy objectives.

Maybe in the UK where the PM has a clear legislative majority and more rigid party discipline you can expect the laws passed to match all the campaign promises made - but that ain't here.
Seriously, who in the world would want to have a supreme being telling them what they could do (or being able to blame someone for following) more then the english?

$hit happens.

I was hoping (with my vote) that it wouldn't hit the fan so hard.

We're yet to see if I was right, but I can say that I seemed to make a "different" choice then most in 2000 and in 2004.
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Old 10-27-2010, 05:12 AM
 
Location: San Diego
2,311 posts, read 2,835,150 times
Reputation: 893
Quote:
Originally Posted by NHartphotog View Post
The cite had the best description of modern Presidential American politics ever: "If you want to run for national office in the US, you have to raise huge sums of money from corporations and very rich people to pay for the adverts and the mailings that get you on the ballot and into office. These corporations will only give you money if you persuade them that you will serve their interests once you are in power."
It isn't just Presidential races, the governorship in CA seems to cost quite a bit.
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Old 10-27-2010, 06:07 AM
 
20,186 posts, read 23,912,643 times
Reputation: 9284
Quote:
Originally Posted by TnHilltopper View Post
I've always likened Obama to "Bush light", same great taste, just less filling.

Its funny but we had a thread over in elections prior to the election where amid wild charges of the rouge pinko liberal commie stuff that usually gets tossed around, I have always said that the new boss will be a lot like the old boss, when it comes to any substantive matters. Namely as pointed out, resisting the sirens cash on Wall Street.

I'm sure folks have heard the term, "Follow the money" from the movie All the President Men, the story of Woodward and Bernstein's revealing of Watergate. Well when we follow the money today, we find it comes from the same places and ends up in the same pockets, while folks bicker over left and right, their wallets are getting lifted.
Yeah, I always thought Obama as a "lazy Bush"... did things poorly and when things are done poorly, he didn't even try to fix it... Bush tried to cover it up and get engaged, Obama just laid on his bed saying, oh well, its America's problem now, not mine...
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Old 10-27-2010, 07:52 AM
 
35,016 posts, read 39,238,258 times
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I disagree with the "meet the new boss, same as the old boss" stuff to a great degree. Even the article itself makes a distinction. "These [couple of Obama accomplishments] make a real difference: they’re reason enough to vote Democratic over Republican", and praises Alan Grayson and Russ Feingold. And look at his plans for the country before the financial tsunami washed them away:

https://www.city-data.com/forum/16410318-post102.html

This is not a corrupt person, but it is a corrupt structure he has to work with in order to get anything accomplished at all. I'm particularly nonplussed by Fox viewer-types who are the most egregious victims of that corruption's propaganda, and therefore its first line of enablers, who reject positive change but love to complain that nothing ever changes.
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Old 10-27-2010, 08:17 AM
 
11,135 posts, read 14,221,186 times
Reputation: 3696
Quote:
Originally Posted by delusianne View Post
I disagree with the "meet the new boss, same as the old boss" stuff to a great degree. Even the article itself makes a distinction. "These [couple of Obama accomplishments] make a real difference: they’re reason enough to vote Democratic over Republican", and praises Alan Grayson and Russ Feingold. And look at his plans for the country before the financial tsunami washed them away:

https://www.city-data.com/forum/16410318-post102.html

This is not a corrupt person, but it is a corrupt structure he has to work with in order to get anything accomplished at all. I'm particularly nonplussed by Fox viewer-types who are the most egregious victims of that corruption's propaganda, and therefore its first line of enablers, who reject positive change but love to complain that nothing ever changes.
Is Obama from the kind of corruption that surrounds a spoiled silver spoon son of a Connecticut blue blood family of old money that got to live out his fantasy of being an old west cowboy, no of course not. Obama came from a different kind of corruption, the kind you might find on the streets, or in Chicago politics where it isn't privilege that gets you somewhere but your knowledge of how to bend a few noses and twist a few arms.

Prior to Obama's entry into top tier politics, I suspect he was by all accounts a self made man, but once his popularity was recognized by the establishment Democrat Party, he was quite literally groomed for office. Much like ants or termite workers might tend to their queen, Obama's image and his narrative was very much written for him and to the extent we see his influence, it stops when it met Wall Street money.

Any politician at a national level darn well knows that the only way you get here or remain here is to spend a lot of time on your knees groveling to those that can offer the vast sums of money to make it possible in the first place. Any politician looking for a Senate seat or eying the Presidency will have to accept the yoke of obedience to the master holding the leash.

I believe Obama to be an idealistic man, an intelligent man, but I also see him as obedient to the establishment culture and not a very effective leader. I think he has done some good things and if it were up to him alone, he would probably do more, but every President at the peak of their political capital will toss the public a bone to gnaw on while Washington then carries on, business as usual.

Perhaps by 2012, if Obama has us 100% out of Iraq and nearly 100% out of Afghanistan, I might think otherwise, but he is fighting America's embrace of our other religion, "American global dominance". If Obama takes some bold steps to address the plight of the working class, even if contrary to my personal sentiments of how, I might think differently.

Unlike many here, I've seen Obama in the past two years try to constantly reach across the aisle and heal some of the bitter partisanship, but when the results return the same time and time again, it is not good leadership to continue. Compromise gutted healthcare with the removal of the public option, compromise has softened Wall Street reform to the point now that corporations not only get use of tax payer dollars, but get to make pillows out of them for their fat backsides. Sometimes a President should say to hell with compromise and act purely on behalf of the people of the nation, not the people holding their debts.

Obama is a well groomed establishment politician, in this respect, this boss is not that different than the last boss.
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Old 10-27-2010, 09:27 AM
 
Location: OCEAN BREEZES AND VIEWS SAN CLEMENTE
19,893 posts, read 18,486,036 times
Reputation: 6465
Obama has let us all down! because in reality i believe he has let himself down. NOT AS EASY AS YOU THOUGHT MR PRESIDENT HA! all the garbage talk of being that different sort of President, everyone's President, that by-partisian President, the one who was not going to spend President, the one that had our best interest in mind President, has let us all down.
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Old 10-27-2010, 09:36 AM
 
Location: NW Montana
6,259 posts, read 14,711,026 times
Reputation: 3460
In the end he is like a bad boyfriend who picks you up in a nice car, takes you to a nice dinner then steals your purse while you are in the bathroom.
What looks good on the outside is rarely reflective of what is on the inside.
Folks just have buyers remorse.
Not me...
IMO the other side did not give us much to vote for either. I just wanted to repay McCain for his sacrifice as a POW.
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Old 10-27-2010, 09:41 AM
 
6,565 posts, read 14,321,047 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teachertype View Post
I found this to be a thoughtful essay about US politics from the UK Independent-

Johann Hari: The real reason Obama has let us all down - Johann Hari, Commentators - The Independent
Hard to disagree with any of it.
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Old 10-27-2010, 09:45 AM
 
35,016 posts, read 39,238,258 times
Reputation: 6195
Well, Tn, I don't know. I expect he was groomed and polished and a shorthand narrative created for him, but don't they all have to be in order to win anything mass?

Look at that July 2 speech, what he had had in mind to do before he had to set it aside and tend to the immediate problems. He wasn't just making that up as he went along to get votes; his entire history had been the same do-gooder stuff, on larger and larger scales. If he was groomed by corrupt people and has had to deal with corrupt people to get things done, that doesn't make him or his vision corrupt.

He's not any more a tool of Wall Street than he's had to be in order to get things done. He wasn't a lackey of business in state politics either. The financial crisis wasn't a staged opportunity to reward his WS donors. He chastised the Supremes in public regarding Citizen United. He's put regulations into place at the SEC. He's fussed in speeches about excessive compensation. The market does not trust him or Tim Geithner to work in their best interests -- watch the charts anytime Geithner or Bernanke makes a speech. (Contrary to what the RWs have been led to believe he's not handing cash and Hawaiian vacations out to the welfare queens, either.)

His administration's circumstances are not business as usual. He's had to ramp up and manage the Second Great Depression since before he took office. He's got the Bush wars and terrorism to try to contain. I suspect he knows a lot better than we do, and better than he did before he was elected, what's really going on out there, how serious it really is and what dangers we and the West truly are in. The next President (in 2012) will find out, too.

As far as effective leadership goes, I think his number one problem is in communicating with us, especially the RW base. He needs to let them know he's on their side -- cos he is -- but he doesn't tell them this in ways they can "hear". Why not! Hire a translator for heaven's sake.

I'm disappointed about the transparency business: even if it wasn't possible to accomplish everything transparently he should have apologized each time and spelled it out to us why. I'd also like to hear an honest reason why we and Mexico are in this nefarious collusion regarding immigrants and drugs. If he'd speak up honestly about that that would go a long way for him.
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