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Old 10-31-2010, 11:42 AM
 
1,179 posts, read 975,729 times
Reputation: 390

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With so many outright lies about this administration over the last two years, it's important for voters to know the fact before election day. Lets take a look at what the GOP claims and then reality.

1) President Obama tripled the deficit.

Reality: Bush's last budget had a $1.416 trillion deficit (Bush’s last budget ran through 9/30/2009). Obama's first reduced that to $1.29 trillion (Obama’s first budget ran through 9/30/2010).

2) President Obama raised taxes, which hurt the economy.

Reality: So far, Obama has cut taxes (unless you are a smoker). 40% of the "stimulus"was in the form of tax cuts. These were delivered in small reductions in payroll deductions, which based on recent polls, went un-noticed by most of those who benefited from them. The idea was to put money directly in the hands of middle-class tax payers, who would be most likely to spend the extra pocket money. Each individual tax payer received $400, joint filers received $800. Of course, this did add to the national debt. Tax cuts, without spending cuts, always add to the debt.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/19/us...s/19taxes.html
Tax Cuts Leave Nothing Behind -- Infrastructure Investment Leaves Behind Infrastructure | OurFuture.org (http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2010083102/tax-cuts-leave-nothing-behind-infrastructure-investment-leaves-behind-infrastr - broken link)

3) President Obama bailed out the banks.

Reality: While many people conflate the stimulus with the bank bailouts, the bank bailouts were requested by President Bush and his Treasury Secretary, former Goldman Sachs CEO Henry Paulson. (Paulson also wanted the bailouts to be "non-reviewable by any court or any agency." The bailouts passed and began before the 2008 election of President Obama.

4) The stimulus didn't work.

Reality: The stimulus has worked, but it was not enough. In fact, according to the Congressional Budget Office (CBO), the stimulus raised employment by between 1.4 million and 3.3 million jobs. In retrospect, which is always easier than looking forward, the financial crisis which began in December, 2007, and peaked in the fall of 2008 was far worse than most of us realized then, or even now. We very nearly saw a repeat of the Great Depression, caused ironically by many of the same excesses of the late 1920’s.

Stimulus added millions of jobs in Q2 | Reuters
Seeing the Forest: Let's See If We Can Get The Rest

5) Businesses will hire if they get tax cuts.

Reality: A business hires the right number of employees to meet demand for its product or service. Having extra cash does not cause a business to hire, but a business that has a demand for what it does will find the money to hire. Businesses need customers, not tax cuts. Of course, taxes can become a damper on business, but current tax rates are over 60% lower than they were under Dwight Eisenhower, and virtually no one is going to claim today that the 1950’s were a period of low business opportunity. In fact, many are nostalgic for the “good old days”.

It's The Lack Of Demand, Stupid! | OurFuture.org
Businesses Need Customers Not Tax Cuts - Speak Out California Weblog (http://www.speakoutca.org/weblog/2009/12/tax-cuts-and-de.html - broken link)

6) Health care reform costs $1 trillion.

Reality: The health care reform actually reduces government deficits by $138 billion. This, of course, has yet to be seen, but the CBO projects these savings, and virtually no one, other than pundits, claim otherwise.

Healthcare bill to cut deficit: CBO | Reuters

7) Social Security is a Ponzi scheme, is "going broke" people live longer, fewer workers per retiree, etc…

Reality: Social Security has run a surplus since it began, has a trust fund in the trillions, is completely sound for at least 25 more years and cannot legally borrow so cannot contribute to the deficit (compare that to the military budget!) Life expectancy is only longer because fewer babies die; people who reach 65 live about the same number of years as they used to. If there are problems looming, they could easily be addressed by minor tweaks today. Social Security was never intended to be a “retirement plan” – it was intended as a safety net for those unable to work any longer. There is nothing standing in anyone’s way today, who wants to invest for retirement privately – the whole concept of “privatizing” Social Security is a Wall Street ploy to increase the capital with which it can gamble. Imagine what a state our retirement aged folks would be in today, after the disastrous last 3 years in the markets, if they had depended on the advice of Walls Street brokers, or even their own ability to project market performance!

Top 10 Crazy Things Conservatives Say: Social Security Edition | OurFuture.org

8) Government spending takes money out of the economy.

Reality: Government is We, the People and the money it spends is on We, the People. Many people apparently do not know that it is government that builds the roads, airports, ports, courts, schools and other things that are the soil in which business thrives. Many people think that all government spending is on "welfare" and "foreign aid" when that is only a very small part of the government's budget. Now, many of us would prefer to make decisions for ourselves when it comes to spending the money we earn, and I agree whole-heartedly with that notion. It is simply wrong, however, to say that government spending takes money out of the economy – that is nonsensical. If one really is paying attention today, one would know that the private sector is recovering, and adding jobs consistently – it has been for nearly a year. The latest job losses are in the public sector – the “Stimulus” funds provided to the States has run out, and tax revenues at state and local levels is significantly down, requiring state and local governments, and schools to lay people off.

All of this stuff really matters. If the public votes in a new Congress because a majority of voters think this one tripled the deficit, and as a result the new people follow old the policies that actually tripled the deficit, the country could go broke. If the public votes in a new Congress that rejects the idea of helping to create demand in the economy because they think it didn't work, then the new Congress could do things that cause a depression. If the public votes in a new Congress because they think the health care reform will increase the deficit when it is actually projected to reduce the deficit, then the new Congress could repeal health care reform and thereby make the deficit worse. And on it goes.

Last edited by Feel The Love; 10-31-2010 at 11:58 AM..
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Old 10-31-2010, 12:08 PM
 
Location: Fuquay-Varina
4,003 posts, read 10,842,401 times
Reputation: 3303
Reality: Both parties utterly waste our money. The faster we rotate the politicians out, the less damage they can do.
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Old 10-31-2010, 01:06 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,026 posts, read 44,840,107 times
Reputation: 13714
Quote:
8) Government spending takes money out of the economy.
The money is still in the economy, but ...for every $1 taxed out of the economy and spent by the U.S. Government, $1.10 worth of economic growth is destroyed. They're actually DESTROYING more than they're spending.
http://mercatus.org/sites/default/files/publication/Macroeconomic%20effects%20from%20government%20purc hases%20and%20taxes.pdf
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Old 10-31-2010, 02:23 PM
 
Location: Imaginary Figment
11,449 posts, read 14,468,431 times
Reputation: 4777
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feel The Love View Post

2) President Obama raised taxes, which hurt the economy.

Reality: So far, Obama has cut taxes (unless you are a smoker). 40% of the "stimulus"was in the form of tax cuts. These were delivered in small reductions in payroll deductions, which based on recent polls, went un-noticed by most of those who benefited from them. The idea was to put money directly in the hands of middle-class tax payers, who would be most likely to spend the extra pocket money. Each individual tax payer received $400, joint filers received $800. Of course, this did add to the national debt. Tax cuts, without spending cuts, always add to the debt.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/19/us...s/19taxes.html
Tax Cuts Leave Nothing Behind -- Infrastructure Investment Leaves Behind Infrastructure | OurFuture.org (http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2010083102/tax-cuts-leave-nothing-behind-infrastructure-investment-leaves-behind-infrastr - broken link)

3) President Obama bailed out the banks.

Reality: While many people conflate the stimulus with the bank bailouts, the bank bailouts were requested by President Bush and his Treasury Secretary, former Goldman Sachs CEO Henry Paulson. (Paulson also wanted the bailouts to be "non-reviewable by any court or any agency." The bailouts passed and began before the 2008 election of President Obama.
This.

I always laugh when people rant about Obama "raising taxes" or "bailing out the banks." Hello? Earth to GOP, no income taxes have been raised and it was your hero Bush who bailed out the banks.
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Old 10-31-2010, 02:27 PM
 
516 posts, read 375,877 times
Reputation: 262
Let me get you another glass of Kool-Aid, Love.
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Old 10-31-2010, 03:03 PM
 
Location: Blankity-blank!
11,446 posts, read 16,188,106 times
Reputation: 6963
How about the 'government takeover of the auto industry'?

Americans are gullible chumps and will believe what the conservatives say.
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Old 10-31-2010, 03:55 PM
 
33,387 posts, read 34,847,766 times
Reputation: 20030
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feel The Love View Post
With so many outright lies about this administration over the last two years, it's important for voters to know the fact before election day. Lets take a look at what the GOP claims and then reality.

1) President Obama tripled the deficit.

Reality: Bush's last budget had a $1.416 trillion deficit (Bush’s last budget ran through 9/30/2009). Obama's first reduced that to $1.29 trillion (Obama’s first budget ran through 9/30/2010).
reality, bush left office with a deficit under $500 billion.

Quote:
2) President Obama raised taxes, which hurt the economy.

Reality: So far, Obama has cut taxes (unless you are a smoker). 40% of the "stimulus"was in the form of tax cuts. These were delivered in small reductions in payroll deductions, which based on recent polls, went un-noticed by most of those who benefited from them. The idea was to put money directly in the hands of middle-class tax payers, who would be most likely to spend the extra pocket money. Each individual tax payer received $400, joint filers received $800. Of course, this did add to the national debt. Tax cuts, without spending cuts, always add to the debt.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/19/us...s/19taxes.html
Tax Cuts Leave Nothing Behind -- Infrastructure Investment Leaves Behind Infrastructure | OurFuture.org (http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2010083102/tax-cuts-leave-nothing-behind-infrastructure-investment-leaves-behind-infrastr - broken link)
true, obama has not raised taxes, yet. but then the new taxes in the health care law have not kicked in yet, they will in 2011. the democrats in congress refused to bring a bill to the floor for a vote on extending the bush era tax rates, thus taxes will go up on jan 1, 2011.

Quote:
3) President Obama bailed out the banks.

Reality: While many people conflate the stimulus with the bank bailouts, the bank bailouts were requested by President Bush and his Treasury Secretary, former Goldman Sachs CEO Henry Paulson. (Paulson also wanted the bailouts to be "non-reviewable by any court or any agency." The bailouts passed and began before the 2008 election of President Obama.
while the obama administration did not bail out the banks, he WAS instrumental in getting the bailout package passed while he was in the senate. obama also allowed the bush administration to spend half the approved tarp funds for the obama administration.

Quote:
4) The stimulus didn't work.

Reality: The stimulus has worked, but it was not enough. In fact, according to the Congressional Budget Office (CBO), the stimulus raised employment by between 1.4 million and 3.3 million jobs. In retrospect, which is always easier than looking forward, the financial crisis which began in December, 2007, and peaked in the fall of 2008 was far worse than most of us realized then, or even now. We very nearly saw a repeat of the Great Depression, caused ironically by many of the same excesses of the late 1920’s.
the stimulus did not work. there was no large gain in jobs, most of that was accounting smoke and mirrors.

[/quote]

Quote:
5) Businesses will hire if they get tax cuts.

Reality: A business hires the right number of employees to meet demand for its product or service. Having extra cash does not cause a business to hire, but a business that has a demand for what it does will find the money to hire. Businesses need customers, not tax cuts. Of course, taxes can become a damper on business, but current tax rates are over 60% lower than they were under Dwight Eisenhower, and virtually no one is going to claim today that the 1950’s were a period of low business opportunity. In fact, many are nostalgic for the “good old days”.
it is more than just tax cuts that will be needed before businesses start hiring again. they need to know how much health care will cost them, what their taxes will be, and how the financial reform law will affect them. it iwll be a while yet before real new hiring begins.

Quote:
6) Health care reform costs $1 trillion.

Reality: The health care reform actually reduces government deficits by $138 billion. This, of course, has yet to be seen, but the CBO projects these savings, and virtually no one, other than pundits, claim otherwise.

Healthcare bill to cut deficit: CBO | Reuters
the CBO only deals with the numbers given to it. back in the mid 60s when johnsons great society was passed, medicare was supposed to only cost $400 billion by this time, the reality is that it costs a lot more than that. the health care law is far from deficit neutral or deficit friendly. just like the health care bill the clintons pushed in the early 90s, the numbers just do not add up. dont forget that the bill is front loaded, all the new taxes and regulations have already started hitting the economy, but the full bull does not take effect until 2014. so we get ten years of taxes and fees, but only 6 years of benefits. in reality, this bill will be hugely expensive unless it can be killed.

Quote:
7) Social Security is a Ponzi scheme, is "going broke" people live longer, fewer workers per retiree, etc…

Reality: Social Security has run a surplus since it began, has a trust fund in the trillions, is completely sound for at least 25 more years and cannot legally borrow so cannot contribute to the deficit (compare that to the military budget!) Life expectancy is only longer because fewer babies die; people who reach 65 live about the same number of years as they used to. If there are problems looming, they could easily be addressed by minor tweaks today. Social Security was never intended to be a “retirement plan” – it was intended as a safety net for those unable to work any longer. There is nothing standing in anyone’s way today, who wants to invest for retirement privately – the whole concept of “privatizing” Social Security is a Wall Street ploy to increase the capital with which it can gamble. Imagine what a state our retirement aged folks would be in today, after the disastrous last 3 years in the markets, if they had depended on the advice of Walls Street brokers, or even their own ability to project market performance!

Top 10 Crazy Things Conservatives Say: Social Security Edition | OurFuture.org
social security IS a ponzi scheme. the trust fund has been raided for decades by congress, and there are only I.O.U.s in the fund.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Visvaldis View Post
How about the 'government takeover of the auto industry'?

Americans are gullible chumps and will believe what the conservatives say.
really? the government still owns a substantial chunk of both general motors and chrysler.
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Old 10-31-2010, 10:42 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
19,029 posts, read 14,209,414 times
Reputation: 16747
My "Eight things the electorate believe, that are untrue."

  1. A dollar bill is a dollar
  2. Participation in Social Security is mandatory
  3. The national debt is valid, and not based on fraud
  4. "Good" politicians can "balance the budget" and pay down the debt
  5. Small change (fractional coinage) is legitimate
  6. Real estate is private property
  7. All legal Americans are residents who reside at residences
  8. Elections are the only way to effectively change the system
1. See Coinage Act of 1792 versus Title 12 USC Sec. 411
2. I can't find any such law... and I have the 50 titles of USCODE (1992 edition) on CDROM. Involuntary servitude is still unconstitutional in the States united.
3. Pursuant to law, the outstanding debt computes to 650 billion ounces of gold stamped into coin. However, if Congress was lent that money, why is the estimated world wide supply only 5.3 billion ounces? Where's the missing 644.7 billion ounces? (Congress has no power to "create money". If it did, why would it need the power to "borrow money on the credit of the U.S." (See: Art. 1, Sec. 8, USCON))
4. Since "dollar bills" are debt (minus value) and are only created by new debt, how can they "pay debt"? To generate new dollar bills, Congress MUST increase the debt or else trigger economic chaos.
5. Coinage Act of 1965, which fundamentally changed the fractional coin from silver (constitutional money) to clad counterfeits, was not authorized by the USCON, nor was any amendment passed to allow it. It was an illegal act by the government. Coincidentally, Congress did vote to REDUCE the punishment for counterfeiters - just in case.
6. Private property is absolutely owned by an individual - and constitutionally protected. Real estate (i.e., estate) is held with qualified ownership and is not protected. In fact, ownership of estate is subject to ad valorem taxes, as it is a privilege.
7. Perhaps they were never informed that inhabitants have domiciles (legal homes), while residences are "less than a domicile" (not a legal home).
8. Since consent empowers the government under the perpetual "temporary" State of Emergency instituted in 1933, the only effective way to change is to withdraw consent. Ask your "public servant" for the official procedure to do so.
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Old 10-31-2010, 10:54 PM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,882 posts, read 33,274,487 times
Reputation: 4269
Quote:
Originally Posted by SLCPUNK View Post
This.

I always laugh when people rant about Obama "raising taxes" or "bailing out the banks." Hello? Earth to GOP, no income taxes have been raised and it was your hero Bush who bailed out the banks.
No income taxes have been raised but hide and watch what happens to the income taxes those people who liked their health insurance that is paid for, largely, by their employers. They are going to be shocked when they learn that they will get to pay income taxes on the amount the employers pay on them. All of a sudden those are no longer perks.
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Old 10-31-2010, 11:06 PM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,882 posts, read 33,274,487 times
Reputation: 4269
Default Feel The Love

You said some real Pelosi about SS when you said that there has been a surplus till this year. The surplus has been being spent ever since the early 50s when the Dem Congress and President Eisenhower started paying it all to foreigners we wanted to "buy" through foreign aid. The "surplus" that Clinton supposedly had was so near the surplus from SS withholding that it just makes me think that lots of squeezing of facts took place back then.

7) Social Security is a Ponzi scheme, is "going broke" people live longer, fewer workers per retiree, etc…

Reality: Social Security has run a surplus since it began, has a trust fund in the trillions, is completely sound for at least 25 more years and cannot legally borrow so cannot contribute to the deficit (compare that to the military budget!) Life expectancy is only longer because fewer babies die; people who reach 65 live about the same number of years as they used to. If there are problems looming, they could easily be addressed by minor tweaks today. Social Security was never intended to be a “retirement plan” – it was intended as a safety net for those unable to work any longer. There is nothing standing in anyone’s way today, who wants to invest for retirement privately – the whole concept of “privatizing” Social Security is a Wall Street ploy to increase the capital with which it can gamble. Imagine what a state our retirement aged folks would be in today, after the disastrous last 3 years in the markets, if they had depended on the advice of Walls Street brokers, or even their own ability to project market performance!

There is no trust fund for Social Security. There is a kind of lock box with a whole lot of bonds that serve as IOUs from Congress. How in hell can this government of our pay the nearly $4 trillion they have stolen from the people? Can't happen so there is no surplus stored away since they (Congress) spent it long ago.

The minor tweak that would allow SS to recover, somewhat, would be to pass a law that forces Congress to stop spending that money as if it was just income tax, as they have done for over 50 years. This won't happen since it is Congress that would have to pass that law.
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