It's pretty simple yet my fellow idiot Americans stay divided! (healthcare, highway)

[sickofnyc]

Originally Posted by SoCalCroozer

You' know I think you are really on to something with the whole sports analogy. No where have I seen such an obsession with sports as in America. Yes europe has their fair share of soccer hooligans and sports fanatics but it's not nearly as ingrained in their national psyche as American sports are nor does it take such prominance in the overall culture in Europe or other countries. I mean I have coworkers and people that I know that can spout off the latest stats of every NFL or NBA player over the past 20 years. But you ask them how many Senators there are or what our national debt is and they look at you like you're from another planet.

It's absolutely true. In many of my posts I give the analogy of this being treated like a football game. The dumbing down of America has taken hold and the policies are just an excuse to root for a political team. Policies and voting records are actually just a moot point to so many Americans that it is frightening.

[oldtoiletsmkgdflrpots]

[quote=Pandamonium;16509605]

Originally Posted by oldtoiletsmkgdflrpots

Are you telling me that people aren't qualified to read bills at different stages?

No, I didn't say people were not qualified to read bills.

[rbohm]

Originally Posted by SoCalCroozer

This last election was pretty much the breaking point for me personally. The whole left right conservative democrat paradigm is stupid. How anyone can blame Obama for the mess we are in as a country or for that matter one President or one decade is just ignorant. When will we realize that the two party system has ruined and will continue to divide our country.

National debt as of right now $13.8 trillion

As a % of GNP:
2000 53%
2009 83%
2010 94.3%
2012 >100%

i dont fully blame obama, but by the same token i cant fully blame bush either. one of obamas campaign promises was to bring fiscal responsibility back to federal spending, and he has yet to do that. in the end, the problem has been going on since the mid 60s when johnson took over as president from kennedy.

Another scary statistic..........

Since World War II, job growth has kept up with population growth, ranging from 10 to 20 percent per decade. The country was firmly convinced that it could continue to do so. In the last decade, the population grew by 25 million, but there were no new jobs, or at least no net job creation. But a minimum of 100,000 new jobs a month was needed just to serve those who wanted to enter the job market.

yes that is a scary statistic.

Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest

I guess you can choose to remain ignorant of the fact that our federal government was never designed to be empowered with this much centralized control and was in fact set up for quite the opposite.
Checks and balances, two party system and all of that. Look it up sometime in between the teachings of Marx, Mao,Lenin et al.

exactly, the founding fathers wanted a weak federal government, that watched over the states, but let the states solve the problems that came up. unfortunately is was a republican that started us down the path of a strong federal government in 1861.

Originally Posted by NomadRefugee

Elections are rigged anyway. It really, truely, is a waste of time to vote.

sorry you feel that way. personally i think that by voting you really do have a voice in government, despite how small that voice is.

I don't reall know what the solution is. What we need is an all out revolution. I don't think anything short of that will bring any change.

before we start talking about revolution, think about a few things first;

1: if we overthrow the current government, what do we replace it with?

2: if we just reset the current government, what is to stop things from progressing to the point they are now?

If we had a movement, similar to the tea party, but more level headed and not supporting either political party that would be great.

the tea party didnt really support the republican party so much as republicans ran on tea party values.

The problem with the tea party is that almost all of the support Republicans and they don't want a true revolution. The just want Obama out of the white house and wan't things to go back in a slightly more conservative direction.

understand that the republicans are on probation right now. if they do not follow through on their campaign platform, they will become a third party, and eventually go the at of the whig party.

To frame it in the context of an NFL game metphor.... turn off the TV, stop watching that crap, read fine literature instead, and meet other people who also read fine literature. Promote fine literature, until one day it becomes more popular thn the NFL.

while this works with the NFL, it wont work with politics. we need to hold the republicans, and the rest of our elected officials, to the fire and keep an eye on what they are doing. if we dont, then we deserve to lose this country.

Originally Posted by Memphis1979

There is when you develop an energy source thats cheaper than oil, renewable, and we are the only ones in the world that produce it.

Large hurdles, I agree, but I hear people say they believe in America all the time, I think we could do it.

Originally Posted by SoCalCroozer

Well Brazil did it with sugar cane. What source do you have in mind? We are not Brazil......the multinational oil companies have a stranglehold on this country. The Rockefeller family would never allow it unless they are spearheading the entire movement. But there is way too much oil left in the earth (I believe oil is renewable myself and peak oil is BS) to make the movement come to fruition. This country could have been completely electric car dominated 20-30 years ago. But big oil got in the way.

energy independence is an admirable goal, but technology dominance is fleeting at best. if we can develop alternative energies, then so can any industrialized country, including india, china, and russia.

Originally Posted by Memphis1979

I'm open to options. Sugar cane, nuclear, solar, wind, fusion, whatever. Just as long as it works, is cost effective, and we are the only ones on the planet that can produce it.

we will need every form of energy to become independent of the world on energy.

Originally Posted by mb1547

I think that's just it--we're reduced to voting for what we believe is the lesser of two evils. Independents swept in the Dem's during 2008, they gave them less than two years to fix a huge mess, and now they've swept the R's into the House. Unless the job situation gets better quickly, I don't think they'll be there much longer than that either. If anyone thinks this is a mandate for all Republican policies, I think they're going to be sadly disappointed--this election was all about the economy and jobs. There's very little party loyalty left, except on the far end of each party. If things don't get better quickly, we'll see changes again.

actually the democrats had four years, remember that congress was taken over in 2006 by the democrats. but as i pointed out earlier, if the republicans go back to their ways of the bush years, they will be out of power again, and there will be a third party rise up, and rather quickly.

Originally Posted by NomadRefugee

Bush made it painfully obvious that Republicans are complete scum.

no, during the bush years, the republicans lost their way. remember that during the clinton years, the republicans were the ones holding the purse strings, and clinton had to go along with them to be a two term president.

And now Obama is making it painfully obvious that the Democrats are right there on the same level as the Republicans.

democrats have for the last 50 years been tax and spenders. they are merely taking it to a new level, which is why the republicans were swept into office this election,

All their argueing is a charade. Behind closed doors they have secret meetings, make secret deals, and they are on the same page with most of their decisions.

we shall see what happens in the next two years.

But to the public, they make it appear that each side is battling and pushing the other side. Just to give us the illusion of Democracy and choice.

again, lets see what happens in the next two years.

Originally Posted by Jaggy001

Good comments.

The Dems focused on health care while the economy was falling apart and they didn't do a great job of it either. This election is their punishment.

very true. the democrats misread the publics anger at the republicans in 2006 and 2008, and they felt they had a mandate from the people to be reckless in their spending as long as it was for a supposedly good cause.

The Republicans will also get punished if they don't fix the economy either so they are going to have to throw ideology out of the window and figure out how to work with the Dem controlled senate and the president.

the government cannot fix anything, and they cannot create jobs, they can however create the atmosphere where by business can create jobs and turn the economy around.

Originally Posted by aspiesmom

The answer is- GET RID OF THE CORPORATIST PARTY.
Public Campaign Financing - NOW!!!

i have mixed feelings about public campaign financing. on the one hand it would limit the amount of money politicians have to spend on their campaigns, but on the other hand it would be a burden on the budget.

[texdav]

I really don't know why anyone is surprised really. We have a large per centage of people who are use to spending and finacing part of their lifestyle on credit cards.The politcans were perfectly happy as so mnay wanted this but once the bubble burst they seemed shocked. They how have enacted so called consumer protections that stop people form doing this to themsleves and endagering others. That really is what the protection is;taking your credit cards awwy if you have demonstrated your too illresponsible to have one. But as always as the Madoff case showed the government cannot reallty protect you from yourself. I mean the SEC only had to look if he was even trading but never did after several warningss. They had all the authirority they need to simply look.Its the old case of buyer beware really.You are your best protection;from a con that looks too good to be true and is.When you start connig youreself that is when your really in trouble.

[Avengerfire]

"It's pretty simple yet my fellow idiot Americans stay divided!"

You can be an idiot American on your own with your own. I am not part of that group.

[Neuling]

A couple of days ago I read an assessment by a journalist who said that the US is like the old Yugoslavia, lots of people and ethnic groups that can't stand each other or at best don't care about each other, forced to live within the same borders...

[Tober138]

Originally Posted by Fawkes

The democrats have really messed up the economy, but we can recover.

If you know ANYTHING about economic policy in this country, then you would know that there ois enough blame to be handed out to both the democrats and the republicans for the state that it is currently in.

Originally Posted by rbohm

one of obamas campaign promises was to bring fiscal responsibility back to federal spending, and he has yet to do that.

True enough....although it has been hard for his administration to do much of anything as the "other side" made a lot of noise over healthcare for the express purpose of tying all of his resources up in that battle, leaving very little left over to do anything else.

Originally Posted by rbohm

the tea party didnt really support the republican party so much as republicans ran on tea party values.

The Republican used the Tea Baggers in this election like a $10 hooker. And now they will dispose of them in much the same fashion.

[Tober138]

Originally Posted by Avengerfire

"It's pretty simple yet my fellow idiot Americans stay divided!"

You can be an idiot American on your own with your own. I am not part of that group.

Anyone who believes that one party is good and 100% right on everything, and that the other is evil and always wrong is a part of that group.

[Ceece]

I wish there wern't any political parties, just individuals running for offices on their own merits.
But I'm scared that the average american would be stumped if they had to vote that way and didn't have lable to hang onto.

[Visvaldis]

Originally Posted by NomadRefugee

I totally agree with you. It's really frustrating seeing this endless left vs. right nonsense go on year after year. The politicians are herding us around and firing us up to divide us into seperate camps. And it's working.

The morons of the USA still fail to see through the smoke and mirrors. And they still battle it out like it's an NFL football game. This left vs. right battling will NEVER lead us anywhere good and it willnever end until people stop playing that game.

Yes, but the battle as a game is easier to understand. Finding solutions with the other side is considered as humiliation and very un-macho, don't expect Americans to do it.