Thoughts on Cheney, Bush on C-Span, what legacy (Congress, solution, school)

[burdell]

Originally Posted by Guamanians

You obviously have forgotten history. If you had asked people on sep 10, 2001 who was the #1 most dangerous threat to America. Most epople would have said Saddam. We had already attacked him in 1991. he had continued to defy the US, and the UN. He was calling our bluff. you act like Saddam was no problem

I've forgotten history? You've apparently forgotten reality.

Who would possibly give a rat's ass on 9/11 what people thought was the #1 threat to America on 9/10? Things changed, unfortunately not all the tunnel visioned minds.

And please do document your allegation, I don't believe the average American would have named Iraq as America's biggest threat on 9/10.

BTW, invoking defiance of the UN as reason for war is laughable, if the UN can't enforce it's own resolutions those resolutions are meaningless.

[burdell]

Originally Posted by Guamanians

I'm saying that Bush was tough on terror, and obaa is a wimp. terrorists can plot, plan, & attack us much easier with Obama in the WH.
Again, I ask you to listen to what Obama said at his WH Ramadan dinner.

No, you're deflecting and back-pedaling from your previous allegation that Obama is a Muslim sympathizer.

Once again, prove your otherwise baseless, inane allegation.

[burdell]

Originally Posted by ergohead

What kind of problem, and to whom, was Saddam?

He was a baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad man, reason enough for the armchair generals to choose war.

[vamos]

I have no interest in getting into your argument, here. I do know a few things that I could easily observe while living abroad during the Bush years:

1.) Just about every single country that was a traditional ally of the US took a much more anti-American stance. Especially Western Europe did not appreciate the baseless, rude, and egomaniacal comments by the likes of Rumsfeld. "You're either with us or you're against us" was nothing more than an offensive statement that conveyed to just about every ally that they were not entitled to form their own opinion on matters affecting international security.

2.) I had never (and have not since) seen so many US Americans deny their own country while traveling abroad. Everybody suddenly seemed to be from Canada.

3.) It was striking to me how many people were appalled by US hypocrisy. For years, US politicians felt free to point a blaming finger at other countries' policies, human rights violations, violations of the Geneva convention, etc. - and suddenly, they found the protagonist of all these ideals justifying torture as a viable instrument to extract information, they found their former ally trying to argue that the end justifies the means, that a person is no longer innocent until proven guilty. They found that the US created the legal label "Enemy Combatant" to circumvent the Geneva Convention.

4.) I find that years later, the world still has not forgotten what the Bush administration did - and the US is feeling the repercussions to this day. Europe no longer looks up to the US. In other words, under the Bush administration, the US lost credibility and respect.

5.) I met a large number of US citizen trying to relocate to foreign countries because they were disillusioned with the direction the country had taken.

Alas, these are just my observations and perhaps they are just anecdotal evidence of the Bush legacy...

[Guamanians]

Originally Posted by burdell

I've forgotten history? You've apparently forgotten reality.

Who would possibly give a rat's ass on 9/11 what people thought was the #1 threat to America on 9/10? Things changed, unfortunately not all the tunnel visioned minds.

And please do document your allegation, I don't believe the average American would have named Iraq as America's biggest threat on 9/10.

If Saddam was a serious threat to America in 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, and 2000 STILL a threat in 2001.
hello, McFly

[Guamanians]

Originally Posted by vamos

I have no interest in getting into your argument, here. I do know a few things that I could easily observe while living abroad during the Bush years:

1.) Just about every single country that was a traditional ally of the US took a much more anti-American stance. Especially Western Europe did not appreciate the baseless, rude, and egomaniacal comments by the likes of Rumsfeld. "You're either with us or you're against us" was nothing more than an offensive statement that conveyed to just about every ally that they were not entitled to form their own opinion on matters affecting international security.

2.) I had never (and have not since) seen so many US Americans deny their own country while traveling abroad. Everybody suddenly seemed to be from Canada.

3.) It was striking to me how many people were appalled by US hypocrisy. For years, US politicians felt free to point a blaming finger at other countries' policies, human rights violations, violations of the Geneva convention, etc. - and suddenly, they found the protagonist of all these ideals justifying torture as a viable instrument to extract information, they found their former ally trying to argue that the end justifies the means, that a person is no longer innocent until proven guilty. They found that the US created the legal label "Enemy Combatant" to circumvent the Geneva Convention.

4.) I find that years later, the world still has not forgotten what the Bush administration did - and the US is feeling the repercussions to this day. Europe no longer looks up to the US. In other words, under the Bush administration, the US lost credibility and respect.

5.) I met a large number of US citizen trying to relocate to foreign countries because they were disillusioned with the direction the country had taken.

Alas, these are just my observations and perhaps they are just anecdotal evidence of the Bush legacy...

thank you for your observation/opinion. I (an American) feel that other countries did not stick with us because it may have led to further attacks from Al quada. In addition, fighting the waron terror is very costly (both financially, and with human lives)
It is much easier to just let the US fight the war ourselves

[burdell]

Originally Posted by Guamanians

If Saddam was a serious threat to America in 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, and 2000 STILL a threat in 2001.
hello, McFly

BULL! #1, he was not a serious threat to America, #2 he certainly slid down the list of world threats on 9/11.

And as seems your habit, no answers to simple questions.

You've alleged Saddam would have been named by most as the biggest threat against America on 9/10/01.

You have what to support that allegation?

[Guamanians]

Originally Posted by burdell

BULL! #1, he was not a serious threat to America, #2 he certainly slid down the list of world threats on 9/11.

And as seems your habit, no answers to simple questions.

You've alleged Saddam would have been named by most as the biggest threat against America on 9/10/01.

You have what to support that allegation?

Again, you are trying to rewrite history. Of course I don't have proof because millions of americans were not asked that question of sep 10th 2001. yes, Saddam slid down the lsit... from #1 to #2. And, I agree with you that the UN resolution was pointless. THAT was part of the problem. The UN would not enforce the resolution, and Saddam was defiant. We HAD to act!

[wade52]

Originally Posted by Guamanians

lets go see a hollywood movie to get an education in american history/politics.

1. It's not a Hollywood movie.

2. It's not Fox News or the Limbaugh Letter, so no one would expect you to pay attention.

[Guamanians]

Originally Posted by wade52

1. It's not a Hollywood movie.

2. It's not Fox News or the Limbaugh Letter, so no one would expect you to pay attention.

I don't read the limbaugh letter. As for news, I watch/read it from many sources. Nice try though