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If you go from SF to LA what do you do for transportation after you get there?
The same thing you would do if you flew to LA with the benefit of avoiding overbearing security, long airport lines, and traveling to the burbs which is where most airports in the country are.
Also, for me at least it would depend on the type of trip. If I was spending any real amount of time in LA then yes, I would take my car. Really though, having a car in a major city is one more thing to worry about and if I were going to LA for a business meeting or quick vacation I'd love not being tied down by my car.
The OP asked for individual thoughts on the matter of high speed rail. These are mine.
High speed rail will never work and be a profitable alternative to vehicular transportation for a number of reasons specific to our country. It will work in emerging economies like China. China has not invested 70 years of transportation infrastructure based on individual ownership of privately owned vehicles. Most people in China do not own cars. They take public transportation or live close to the resources and jobs they need for family survival. For most chinese families, a trip in a private vehicle from Beijing to Shanghai would be a major expedition, so the HSR is an attractive alternative. Not so in America.
The reasons HSR is a non starter in America is the fact that our whole transportation infrastructure is based on the automobile. Starting in the late 40s we totally dismantled a perfectly good national rail system that efficiently moved people at a low cost. The LA trolley system was a marvel of efficiency and made a profit for the private industry. We made a conscious decision to tear up these systems and replace them with roads that could better accomodate autos. The interstate rail system was at one time a great people mover prior to everyone owning a car. The railroad companies shifted their focus to freight from passengers when the auto was sold en masse to the american public on credit. The overhead involved in moving cattle or phosphate in tanker cars was much lower than moving a pullman car designed for people comfort. The sleek super pullmans of the early 50s were hyped as the new marvels of travel. They all lost money and were eventually turned into scrap. Everyone says they would ride the train if they had it but history has proven that nobody actually does unless they have to. Given a choice Americans will always take their cars.
IMO, HSR and inner city's Rapid Transit systems will always be feel good, boondoggles except in cities where the transit system has been established since the early development of said cities. Like NYC or Chicago. There are some novelty routes where it could work. LA to Vegas is one. The casinos would probably pay most the cost of the ticket as an incentive. I just don't see HSR ever working as a viable, profit making enterprise here in America. We've gone too far down the road developing an infrastructure that supports individualism in personal travel.
The OP asked for individual thoughts on the matter of high speed rail. These are mine.
High speed rail will never work and be a profitable alternative to vehicular transportation for a number of reasons specific to our country. It will work in emerging economies like China. China has not invested 70 years of transportation infrastructure based on individual ownership of privately owned vehicles. Most people in China do not own cars. They take public transportation or live close to the resources and jobs they need for family survival. For most chinese families, a trip in a private vehicle from Beijing to Shanghai would be a major expedition, so the HSR is an attractive alternative. Not so in America.
The reasons HSR is a non starter in America is the fact that our whole transportation infrastructure is based on the automobile. Starting in the late 40s we totally dismantled a perfectly good national rail system that efficiently moved people at a low cost. The LA trolley system was a marvel of efficiency and made a profit for the private industry. We made a conscious decision to tear up these systems and replace them with roads that could better accomodate autos. The interstate rail system was at one time a great people mover prior to everyone owning a car. The railroad companies shifted their focus to freight from passengers when the auto was sold en masse to the american public on credit. The overhead involved in moving cattle or phosphate in tanker cars was much lower than moving a pullman car designed for people comfort. The sleek super pullmans of the early 50s were hyped as the new marvels of travel. They all lost money and were eventually turned into scrap. Everyone says they would ride the train if they had it but history has proven that nobody actually does unless they have to. Given a choice Americans will always take their cars.
IMO, HSR and inner city's Rapid Transit systems will always be feel good, boondoggles except in cities where the transit system has been established since the early development of said cities. Like NYC or Chicago. There are some novelty routes where it could work. LA to Vegas is one. The casinos would probably pay most the cost of the ticket as an incentive. I just don't see HSR ever working as a viable, profit making enterprise here in America. We've gone too far down the road developing an infrastructure that supports individualism in personal travel.
All you points are wrong and outdated like so many on this forum.
1. It can work in the Northeast , Midwest and Northwest
2. It is profitable on some networks around the world and Amtrak's Acela train....Amtrak owns 80 of them and due to a spike in Ridership has bought 5 more and is developing a Northeastern master plan.
3. Car Ownership in China is higher then the US or getting there , the Majority of there cities still have a mid-sized American car culture with a badly planned transit system to use.
4. The Chinese have also built a huge Interstate like system and feeder routes
5. The Auto-Centric culture is slowly dying here in American started happening in the mid 90s in the Northeast and has now spread to the Midwest and West Coasts. The Cities are growing and the suburbs are slowing.
6. The Oil and Car companies at the time joined forces and destroyed the Railway / Streetcar network we once had , but just in the US in all the Western Countries and Down Under.
7. Freight companies at least the small are trying to get back in the Passenger railway game , at 6 in the Northeast which would form a network of 800 miles.
8. Rail Ridership numbers for all the Northeastern have surpassed systems pre 1970s numbers before the huge drop.
9. Public Transit is not supposed to operate on profit , but it does spur New developments of all kinds that bring in millions and billions of New Revenue for the towns and cities that have the stations. Like one system here spurred at least 15 billion in Developments in just the first 10 years of operation and thats just phase 1.
Here's what is planned for the Northeast , about 50 of those lines are private....the rest are Transit / Rail agencies looking to restore...All the High Speed Rail lines are private as far as i know. Some are proposals by Rail advocacy groups....and others are proposed by engineers who work the lines. The Northeast Corridor and its 4 Feeder lines need to be upgraded before 60% of this is built.
High-speed rail is far too expensive to even be considered by America today. We are over $14 trillion in debt just at the Federal Level, and cannot even afford the safety net we already have in place--let alone "it would be nice to have" ideas that do nothing to rebuilt the country's economy.
All you points are wrong and outdated like so many on this forum.
1. It can work in the Northeast , Midwest and Northwest
2. It is profitable on some networks around the world and Amtrak's Acela train....Amtrak owns 80 of them and due to a spike in Ridership has bought 5 more and is developing a Northeastern master plan.
3. Car Ownership in China is higher then the US or getting there , the Majority of there cities still have a mid-sized American car culture with a badly planned transit system to use.
4. The Chinese have also built a huge Interstate like system and feeder routes
5. The Auto-Centric culture is slowly dying here in American started happening in the mid 90s in the Northeast and has now spread to the Midwest and West Coasts. The Cities are growing and the suburbs are slowing.
6. The Oil and Car companies at the time joined forces and destroyed the Railway / Streetcar network we once had , but just in the US in all the Western Countries and Down Under.
7. Freight companies at least the small are trying to get back in the Passenger railway game , at 6 in the Northeast which would form a network of 800 miles.
8. Rail Ridership numbers for all the Northeastern have surpassed systems pre 1970s numbers before the huge drop.
9. Public Transit is not supposed to operate on profit , but it does spur New developments of all kinds that bring in millions and billions of New Revenue for the towns and cities that have the stations. Like one system here spurred at least 15 billion in Developments in just the first 10 years of operation and thats just phase 1.
You lost your creds with me in your first sentence. As for the rest of your post, I still stand by my opinions concerning HSR and Urban Rapid transit systems with the exceptions I've pointed out. Thank you for reading my post and taking the time to respond.
High-speed rail is far too expensive to even be considered by America today. We are over $14 trillion in debt just at the Federal Level, and cannot even afford the safety net we already have in place--let alone "it would be nice to have" ideas that do nothing to rebuilt the country's economy.
Well it stimlutes the local economies that have the stops....although i think states should be more involved in Commuter and Urban Rail. Open the Market up for Private investors to do HSR and do it cheaply.
You lost your creds with me in your first sentence. As for the rest of your post, I still stand by my opinions concerning HSR and City Rapid transit systems with the exceptions I've pointed out. Thank you for reading my post and taking the time to respond.
Well maybe half outdated , but have you seen any Chinese Highway or Bridge pictures. While the Country is pouring billions into HSR , it has neglected its regional rail systems and poorly planned its Urban systems....thus many Chinese drive to work. Leading to huge Traffic snarls.....they have 14 lane wide boulevards in most cities.....some of there highways are huge...
Well it stimlutes the local economies that have the stops....although i think states should be more involved in Commuter and Urban Rail. Open the Market up for Private investors to do HSR and do it cheaply.
Now this is something I can agree with you on. If HSR were a privately funded, privately owned, for profit business I could get behind it. But that would mean a big bruhaha over getting the right of way on the rail system.
As I stated earlier, Urban Rail systems work very well if they were initially established when the city in question was being developed, IE: NYC, Chicago, etc. But in cities that expanded during the era of highway infrastructure development, not so well. In Portland, Or. where they put in a RTS, the only riders were the ones who used to take the bus before they dismantled the bus system and replaced it with the RTS. The cost the local government pays to susidize the ticket price is 10.75 per ticket. The major highway running adjcent to the RTS line realized no appreciable drop in traffic due to RTS. In most cities, except the ones I mentioned, most people vote for RTS and say they will ride it but no one actually does unless they have to.
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