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Here's a thought - there is a reason why the shareholders, owners, CEO's etc of US based companies which make their profits out of outsourcing and off-shoring do not simply pick up and move their homes, kids etc to the countries they are making their bucks off of. It can't be that they could not have amazing homes, primo private schools, pretty much anything they wanted to buy in county X.Y, or Z, because they could. Why are they still here? What does the US offer that these other countries don't? and once you answer that, why does the US have it? How will we keep it?
I personally feel it is because we have had a certain degree of social equity which encourages "domestic tranquility". And I believe that we have to pay for that. Part of paying for that is supporting it with domestic jobs even at a cost in bottom line profits, safety nets like unemployment insurance, and whatever prevents a breakdown of our fragile agreement to peacefully co-exist despite inequalities. Do short-term profits really trump long-term domestic security?
Yes, but you see, in short sighted goals they took for granted all of that. Once their allegiance to the USA was broken during Reagan years it's anyones guess how long before this country is reduced to Haiti or Afghanistan.
Well then, maybe now we can cut unemployment benefits and stop the handouts?
Unemployment benefits are insurance. In other words, people paid into an insurance plan. The moment it's time to pony up insurance claim, it's a 'freebie'??? Why have people paid unemployment insurance for decades?
The welfare state grew itself because when you pay people to not work, then give them vouchers for a home, then stamps for food and money to go to Vegas, then why work?
Unions, restrictive bad business laws and lawsuits moved everything out of the country.
Unions kill everything. They are killing us now by being in government getting outrageous overpayment and benefits.
You are blaming potential employers over the just causes IMO.
I know, lets just legalize another 10 million illegals with a second grade third world education and see how it goes?
You don't know anything about unions. You've been programed. Restrictive bad business laws like what? Not allowed to dump toxic waste in the river? Cuts into your profits? Stop kissing the ring of corporations like they're the Pope. Find some self respect. Man up.
Legalize illegals-- yes it's sooo much better having 10 million illegal underground employees skirting taxes and fluffing the pillows of ubber wealth. They are the only ones who've benefited from this arrangement and not one ounce of steam from GOP to seal off the borders even when we gave them a blank check to combat terrorists. God have mercy on your soul for every lie you've told yourself at the expense of your country.
Another "hate the rich" thread by the same poster. Anyone else see an obsession?
How about the rich do a better job of taking care of themselves than they have ever done taking care of me. How about you quit sucking up and yessing them to death?
Unions are a convenient scapegoat but let's face facts. Other countries have very strong Unions, a more open and balanced dialogue between Union and Corporation and yet they still manage to thrive as a result. Look at Germany to name but one example. Stronger Unions than the U.S ever had, and yet more efficient industry and a more stable economy.
You see, it wasn't that Unions fought for so called 'restrictive' laws that was the problem, it was the fact that the Corporations were unwilling to re-invest their profits in more efficient technology to remain competetive like they are willing to do in Germany and Japan.
Instead Corporations were insistent on allowing home grown industry to rot simply because the thought of one cent going back into productivity instead of evaporating into the ether of shareholder exuberance was just too much for the business establishment to bear. When dollar signs light up before a businessman's eyes in bold profit margins, a little humility and common sense is very hard to come by it seems.
But when Corporations take a mature and realistic attitude towards having open lines of communication with the workforce it works, and countries such as Germany and Japan have remained competetive in industries that have long ago dies out in the U.S. Whilst other countries which followed the 'bottom line is all, the bottom line in five minutes from now is everything' mentality have seen their industrial base stripped back to the almost skeletal proportions seen in the U.S. But this is an ideological retrenchment, make no mistake. Because with no tangible manufacturing base to boost economic growth, a nation will have no choice but to be subservient to the whims of the financial sector. Who can argue when a Corporation puts a barrel of a gun to our heads and blackmails the public with the time tested slogan "Lower our taxes, or else?!!"
There is nothing in this principle that promotes any responsibility towards giving two hoots about the country in which you are based. What they want is a dictatorship where they can turn to the public and say "Don't like it, move to Bhupal, I'm happy counting my tax deductible digits in my gated haven on the hill".
The irony is big business has created what is in effect a manifestation of everything that is the polar opposite of what they aspire to represent. Capitalism for the rich, communism for everyone else. Until 5 year old American kids are trawling through sewage for needles and refuse like they do in the underpasses and rubbish dumps in Calcutta there'll always be a big cigar fraud who'll suggest "We haven't truly arrived as a nation".
Greed is a very, very, very powerful thing.
Last edited by Fear&Whiskey; 12-08-2010 at 04:39 AM..
Here's a thought - there is a reason why the shareholders, owners, CEO's etc of US based companies which make their profits out of outsourcing and off-shoring do not simply pick up and move their homes, kids etc to the countries they are making their bucks off of. It can't be that they could not have amazing homes, primo private schools, pretty much anything they wanted to buy in county X.Y, or Z, because they could. Why are they still here? What does the US offer that these other countries don't? and once you answer that, why does the US have it? How will we keep it?
I personally feel it is because we have had a certain degree of social equity which encourages "domestic tranquility". And I believe that we have to pay for that. Part of paying for that is supporting it with domestic jobs even at a cost in bottom line profits, safety nets like unemployment insurance, and whatever prevents a breakdown of our fragile agreement to peacefully co-exist despite inequalities. Do short-term profits really trump long-term domestic security?
The United States offers business contracts based on the rule of law. It has a relatively stable government and financial system. In terms of transportation is right between Europe and Asia. It has a large geographical area with a broad range of climates and landscape. You can live in just about any climate range and geographical landscape you want. Not many countries offer that. Depending on where you live air traffic is relatively convenient.
Long term profits are being made, not short term, which is why corporate profits are at all time high.
As for political stability and domestic tranquility why do you think the Conservatives have the policy of "I've got mine and if you don't have your I don't care". Conservatives don't care about poor people. They will gladly boost the budget for prisons and law enforcement. Either work at wage that won't sustain you, become homeless or go to jail. That is the Conservative answer to addressing poverty. Not only does it remove many poor people from society, it creates a constituency in the law enforcement and correctional facilities industry that is available for votes and campaign funds.
Unions are a convenient scapegoat but let's face facts. Other countries have very strong Unions, a more open and balanced dialogue between Union and Corporation and yet they still manage to thrive as a result. Look at Germany to name but one example. Stronger Unions than the U.S ever had, and yet more efficient industry and a more stable economy.
You see, it wasn't that Unions fought for so called 'restrictive' laws that was the problem, it was the fact that the Corporations were unwilling to re-invest their profits in more efficient technology to remain competetive like they are willing to do in Germany and Japan.
Instead Corporations were insistent on allowing home grown industry to rot simply because the thought of one cent going back into productivity instead of evaporating into the ether of shareholder exuberance was just too much for the business establishment to bear. When dollar signs light up before a businessman's eyes in bold profit margins, a little humility and common sense is very hard to come by it seems.
But when Corporations take a mature and realistic attitude towards having open lines of communication with the workforce it works, and countries such as Germany and Japan have remained competetive in industries that have long ago dies out in the U.S. Whilst other countries which followed the 'bottom line is all, the bottom line in five minutes from now is everything' mentality have seen their industrial base stripped back to the almost skeletal proportions seen in the U.S. But this is an ideological retrenchment, make no mistake. Because with no tangible manufacturing base to boost economic growth, a nation will have no choice but to be subservient to the whims of the financial sector. Who can argue when a Corporation puts a barrel of a gun to our heads and blackmails the public with the time tested slogan "Lower our taxes, or else?!!"
There is nothing in this principle that promotes any responsibility towards giving two hoots about the country in which you are based. What they want is a dictatorship where they can turn to the public and say "Don't like it, move to Bhupal, I'm happy counting my tax deductible digits in my gated haven on the hill".
The irony is big business has created what is in effect a manifestation of everything that is the polar opposite of what they aspire to represent. Capitalism for the rich, communism for everyone else. Until 5 year old American kids are trawling through sewage for needles and refuse like they do in the underpasses and rubbish dumps in Calcutta there'll always be a big cigar fraud who'll suggest "We haven't truly arrived as a nation".
Greed is a very, very, very powerful thing.
Americans have been lead to believe that individual freedom and the power of the individual is more important than the long term benefit of a group. That is one of the core tenets of Conservative philosophy. "Get yours and if somebody else isn't getting his/hers it means they didn't work hard enough, or aren’t smart enough. So why should you help them?"
The history of management-union relationships in the United States has ALWAYS been an adversarial one. Unions had to fight literally to get the right to collectively bargain. Corporate interests have aligned with conservative philosophy and they have socially indoctrinated most Americans that unions are "Socialist" and inherently bad.
The decline of the United States is in large part based on the fact that large numbers of individuals have no interest in personal sacrifice for the long term good of the nation.
When George Bush took office, the problem was clear and evident: If you allow companies in this country to fire qualified american labor and replace that labor with foreigners, there are going to be major problems of unemployment for qualified americans. Bush allowed this problem to escalate out-of-control. It doesn't matter how the village idiot did it. What's clear is that he did nothing to STOP it! At the end of his terms, millions of qualified americans were displaced, and foreigners were here in abundance. There is a high unemployment rate for a reason, Pubs.
Republicans, the OP is absolutely right. To ignore the reality to remain ideologically "pure" as Obama put it yesterday, means that problems DON'T get solved. As a typical Republican, you keep that foot in your mouth and your head buried in the sand. Ignore reality and reason, while Dems address and solve the problems.
Americans have been lead to believe that individual freedom and the power of the individual is more important than the long term benefit of a group. That is one of the core tenets of Conservative philosophy. "Get yours and if somebody else isn't getting his/hers it means they didn't work hard enough, or aren’t smart enough. So why should you help them?"
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The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. /Spock
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I agree; Pubs stink
