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This is truly a palpable problem, regardless of what O'Reilly, Limbaugh, or any other Neocon apologists spew into their gold plated microphones from multi-million dollar broadcast studios. Even with a comp sci degree and genius IQ, I'm now in real estate. Yes indeed, it is that bad. And those of you still in the SW industry...good luck. Tandoori, anyone?
Recovering neocons need to wake up from the nightmare and vote Ron Paul.
I'm waiting for all the government support jobs to be outsourced... Why should taxpayers be footing the bill for people like Karl Rove and my congressman's secretary? Those jobs could be outsourced to India where we wouldn't be on the hook for medical and pensions! I realize that our elected officials need to be located in this country -- but there is nothing in the Constitution that says their support staffs have to be!!
And what about the military? Why should the military be full of Americans? Why don't we outsource those jobs to people already located in the Middle East? If we need military here in the USA, we could outsource those jobs to people in Mexico and Central America! That way, we only need to send bus drivers down there to pick them up!
Why do we have people in the USA running all of our governmental agencies like the FDA, Housing Dept., etc. Let's outsource those jobs! There is no reason people in other countries can't push our paper faster and cheaper than we do!
Let's let everyone in the USA get a hands-on job! There is no reason why we can't all become surgeons, bus drivers, and firemen!
(Before all those red marks start showing up -- I'M JUST KIDDING!!! )
The Charlie Rose show on PBS is doing a series of informative fact gathering shows on this topic. Last night he interviewed the head of one of Chinas'
heads who said China was not interested in taking over any country or ever getting involved in a war with the U.S. They were a "peaceful" nation of 1.3 billion and depended on the U.S. for their trade and they were grateful for all of our people for giving up our jobs so they could end their cycle of poverty.
What he was saying to the American middle class was "Tough Luck Suckers".
After WWII the U.S. exported jobs to Japan, just like China. Remember the slogan "Made in Japan"? I know there are many "experts" who can justify the transfer of our wealth to China. Most are of the Wall Street ilk who can also claim the Iraq war as one of their accomplishments with this administration.
I probably won't be here in 25 years but I shutter to think what the U.S. landscape will look like then. We are importing the third world and in the process became part of that world.
First off, what makes you think the trend is accelerating? Even if white collar jobs are moving to Asia, that doesn't mean that they are moving there at an increasing rate. The basis of this discussion is a little dubious, without any kind of source.
But, in many cases, I don't think that the Indians and Chinese consistently produce the quality of work that is expected in western countries. Some believe that their educational systems rely heavily on memorization, and less on critical thinking skills. I agreem based on my experiences with many Chinese and Indian professors I had in college - which is consistent with the opinions of those who have worked on these big outsourcing projects. Perhaps these differ between India and China, but I've heard some nightmare stories.
Two, communication skills are critical to most white-collar jobs. Even native English speakers who graduate from American universities often have trouble with the verbal skills needed for white collar work. The costs of miscommunication can be very high.
I believe outsourcing has many 'hidden costs', and those are just two among many. You also have to consider the security of sending sensitive information to Communist China, the corruption and bureaucratic mess that you have to wade through in both China and India, and the fact that those countries are gradually becoming more expensive, not cheaper. You also must deal with a foreign (and potentially hostile) legal system. You also have problems with organized crime and intellectual property theft.
If they can legitmately do a job better and cheaper, then more power to them. IMO, if it looks too good to be true, then it probably is.
Anonymous, everything you write is absolutely true. It does not matter though, it is still happening. I work in manufacturing and I see it going on quite a bit, across different industries. I do not have any official statistics on this, just my personal observations. IBM just moved its Corporate Procurement Headquarters to China. The executives in many of these MNCs care more about their personal incentives for their annual bonus- then what is actually good for the company. They can show the hard savings in salaries and get their bonus, then let the worker bees figure it out later. And Chinese and Indians can be trained to do things the way we want it, there is just a learning curve.
We need countervailing tariffs to negate the savings created by outsourcing. Then we need to kill Walmart's monosophony (monopoly) by forbiding any trading of their stock.
We need countervailing tariffs to negate the savings created by outsourcing. Then we need to kill Walmart's monosophony (monopoly) by forbiding any trading of their stock.
While we're at it, let's poll the lower class and ask them what companies they hate. Then, we can force them to close by passing laws to forbid their trade. Also, we'll need to put price controls on the companies that are left so that they won't be able to charge higher prices, though they are forced to hire American labor workers who will be producing at minimum wage while receiving $20/hr. pay, along with company-paid health care and retirement. Then, we'll need to provide federal subsidies to these companies so that they won't claim bankruptcy, close down, and layoff workers. Sounds like a plan to me.
Anonymous, everything you write is absolutely true. It does not matter though, it is still happening. I work in manufacturing and I see it going on quite a bit, across different industries.
I think everyone agrees it is happening. And everyone agrees that in the short-term it hurts the economy. The question is whether it is a good thing, looking at the long term.
This is all about the economic theory of "comparative advantage." Here are some articles from MIT, Harvard, and the U of Michigan that discuss this topic.
There are plenty of people who have been negatively affected by outsourcing. However it seems to me that most economists think outsourcing is both inevitable, and beneficial to the economy.
Thank you (sincerely) for these informative articles. When we ask is it good in the long run, I guess is the question - is it good for the companies and the investors at a macro level, or is it good for the middle class workers whose jobs are being displaced? I am not yet convinced that what we are witniessing is just another natural economic cycle. I believe globalization has broken the mold and we do not know how it will end up yet, for our nation.
I do appreciate the arguments such as this one - that America has always been innovative and adoptive to change. But still...this quote for example refers to the need to massively boost research and development, to be a global leading expert in biotechnology and bioinformatics. Given the current state of our expertise in these fields and let's face it, of our higher education system in general, this is not going to happen any time soon. Moderator cut: copyright
I believe it is. The LCC countries are proving proven they can handle whatever we throw at them. I am not so confident we are going to transition to a super research based society and that will then be our value add in the globalization playing field.
Thank you (sincerely) for these informative articles. When we ask is it good in the long run, I guess is the question - is it good for the companies and the investors at a macro level, or is it good for the middle class workers whose jobs are being displaced? I am not yet convinced that what we are witniessing is just another natural economic cycle. I believe globalization has broken the mold and we do not know how it will end up yet, for our nation.
I think a lot of people have that concern. I think a fundamental problem with the comparative advantage theory is that it doesn't identify what these new industries are, exactly. You can quantify the jobs you're losing, but it is much harder to quantify the jobs you're gaining.
Whether or not this is a natural economic cycle seems to be a debate among economists, and is a topic that's too complex for me to tackle. I'm more of an armchair economist
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I do appreciate the arguments such as this one - that America has always been innovative and adoptive to change. But still...this quote for example refers to the need to massively boost research and development, to be a global leading expert in biotechnology and bioinformatics. Given the current state of our expertise in these fields and let's face it, of our higher education system in general, this is not going to happen any time soon.
You know, there's always the perpetual fear that the whole country is going to hell in a handbasket. A lot of time people take "trends" they see, and make them out to be bigger than they really are. I think our younger generation is pretty smart. A college degree these days is like a high school degree for my dad's generation. People aren't getting dumber.
I once heard Bill Gates say that America's greatest asset is our higher education system. I don't put much stock in university rankings, but the U.S. dominates higher education, worldwide.
Now, a lot of Arabs, Chinese, and Indians are being educated in American universities, and then going back to their countries - which is a seperate issue altogether. That is a cause for concern IMO.
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Similarly, this quote by another person is discussing how low cost sourcing nations are now getting extremely adept at the manufacturing arm of the business and we should concentrate on research and development. However, in reality a lot of corporations have found these nations have the expertise to handle R and D as well. R and D labs are now being offshored in addition to the manufacturing factories.
I see that as a more legitimate problem. I have a question, though - when you say R&D, what kind? Meaning if a patio furniture factory moves to China, I'd expect the patio furniture R&D to go along with it. If our nanotech or biotech R&D operations are moving to China, I would consider that a problem - which do you mean?
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I believe it is. The LCC countries are proving proven they can handle whatever we throw at them. I am not so confident we are going to transition to a super research based society and that will then be our value add in the globalization playing field.
Yea, that is the big question. Can we adapt quickly enough?
I think people overestimate the barriers to entry in these new fields. I don't necessarily think we are going to transition into a nation of geniuses. IT probably seems daunting and complex to some people, but the IT sector provides plenty of jobs that are more akin to an electrician or a plumber. It also provides jobs that are akin to a manager, or a foreman. Surely nanotech and biotech would have the same affect. Not everyone needs to be a scientist to benefit.
I think outsourcing and globalization do bring up issues we must deal with. However, I see a lot of folks who are anti-foreign, isolationist, and protectionist. I think that is a dangerous road to travel down, and that was the point of this whole spiel.
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A Warning on China
