Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Location: Somewhere gray and damp, close to the West Coast
20,955 posts, read 5,555,279 times
Reputation: 8559
Advertisements
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana
I have never heard about that with flu mist. Perhaps you can post some links. What would a neuro-surgeon, a hand surgeon, or an "environmental" doctor know about immunizations that an educated layperson wouldn't know? It's not like they're giving them in the office. Even ER docs don't deal with immunizations. Don't try to discredit me (particularly annoying after your high-horse post to Jill about not having "class") just b/c your friends don't have the right information.
Originally Posted by stayinformed40 This has also been the case this year and in year's past with the flumist.
I have 2 friends whom are pediatricians, a friend whom is a neuro-surgeon, 3 great friends whom are ER doctors, a hand surgeon, a GP, and a family friend whom is an environmental doctor. I think I will listen to what THEY are saying.
Cherry picking is considered an acceptable debate tool? Who is attempting to discredit whom here?
There's a reason why nurses can't prescribe drugs or do surgical procedures. I appreciate what people go through to become a nurse but it's nothing compared to a doctor's requirements especially someone in a specialized field. I work in the medical industry and spend most of my days dealing with nurses, X-ray techs, surgical techs and other medical industry professionals but the final word will always come down to a licensed doctor or surgeon.
So true!! Thank you for stating what should be obvious.
I tried to rep you, but have to spread more around first.
Originally Posted by stayinformed40 This has also been the case this year and in year's past with the flumist.
I have 2 friends whom are pediatricians, a friend whom is a neuro-surgeon, 3 great friends whom are ER doctors, a hand surgeon, a GP, and a family friend whom is an environmental doctor. I think I will listen to what THEY are saying.
Cherry picking is considered an acceptable debate tool? Who is attempting to discredit whom here?
Seems to be a common theme in this thread from certain people.
I have had countless conversations with all of my friends in the medical field about vaccinations and flu shots. I have learned much and large part is due to the fact that since they are doctors, they are better educated on such subjects and often have access to better information, statistics, data and so forth. Surely that makes sense to you - come on! 1+1 does =2.
The environmental doctor used to give flu shots but is now very against them for a host of reasons. He is not against vaccinating, but has seen some bad outcomes of side effects in some children due to vaccines.
Not trying to discredit you - you are trying to overcredit yourself. Just because you are a nurse does not mean you are the final know-all on this subject.
High horse to call someone rude when they cannot reply without a cuss word and very mean words? I will ride my high-horse all day.
My friends are doctors and I would venture to say are far more educated than a nurse......just my opinion. High-horse much yourself?
I think you should google it. You are the one who brought it up. Everyone in our office, doctor and nurse alike, is very aware of the flu immunizations and no one has ever heard anything about febrile seizures from the flu mist.
It's funny that a doctor opposed to immunizations has extreme credibility among the anti-immunizaiton crowd, but those who are in favor of IZs are just "tools", etc.
The truth is that neuro-surgeons, hand surgeons, etc do not give immunizations and therefore have no reason to know much about them, just as we, in a pediatric office, do not give Alzheimer's drugs and therefore don't know a lot about them!
Originally Posted by stayinformed40 This has also been the case this year and in year's past with the flumist.
I have 2 friends whom are pediatricians, a friend whom is a neuro-surgeon, 3 great friends whom are ER doctors, a hand surgeon, a GP, and a family friend whom is an environmental doctor. I think I will listen to what THEY are saying.
Cherry picking is considered an acceptable debate tool? Who is attempting to discredit whom here?
If you want to call it cherry-picking, so be it. First the poster stated her pediatrician told her flu mist causes febrile seizures. I posted from the CDC and FDA that they do not, then she brings in all these other people.
And yeah, stayinformed40 and backspace, I'm just a dumb nurse with about 40 years experience in immunizations, including time in a county health department as an immunization specialist. Go ahead and shoot the messenger.
I am not misinformed at all. I have a Bachelors degree in Biology in addition to my BA in education. I have done extensive reading on vaccines including studies (majority are done outside of the US). I understand the mechanism of the immune response which can cause vaccines to be effective a % of the time. But I also understand how dangerous and unnecessary, outside of big pharma cost savings, the preservatives are in vaccines, which by the way are suspected of being one of the culprits in vaccine injuries. My sister was tested TWICE, which is routine they say, for hep B and your telling me the blood test is unreliable and my 5 minute old nephew is to be vaccinated just in case. That is ludicrous! You my dear are very indoctrinated and misinformed.
If you had done your homework you would have learned again that about a third of all cases of Hep B have no known risk factors. Furthermore the younger the child the greater risk of transmission.
You are simply misinformed if you believe otherwise. You have no idea what the person who comes into contact with your nephew does in his space time. What's wrong with vaccinating that baby against a potentially deadly disease?
Quote:
The people who are of the medical establishment are so innoculated with their own sense of omnipotence that they ridicule, belittle, label, and bully people right into a corner where they are gonna resist.
The medical establishment is so terrified of admitting that they might, just might be mistaken because they have publicly committed to the position that vaccines are safe and are the only answer to disease control. They know that if they were to admit they may have been wrong that there will be an avalanche of lawsuits to would follow.
Is there a point this rant? Vaccines are safe. Certainly far safer than measles, mumps, rubella, diphtheria, polio, tetanus or whooping cough. They're not the only answer but they are a huge part of the puzzle.
Quote:
Now if the establishment would detach itself from the big pharma umbilical cord, start doing large scale honest studies of risk factors, take the preservatives out of the vaccines, and show the non-medical community some respect people would feel like they could make a truly informed health decision based on real data.
For those of you who are not blindly accepting of vaccine dogma, Dr. Sherri Tenpenny is one of the few doctors who will tell the truth about current vaccine safety. She is respected well enough to testify in congress as an expert on the matter.
Oy.
The misinformation here. Firstly, most vaccines are not profitable. Secondly large scale studies have been done. Thirdly any baby gets a lot more preservatives than you'll find in all vaccines combined once it starts drinking something other than breast milk.
Oh and Sherri Tenpenny is stupid quack with a dangerous agenda.
I find it amusing that the same people who rant about the tiny profits most vaccines earn turn around and place trust in people selling overpriced dreck.
Go buy some of her diluted water and "neurotrasmitter supplements" for only forty bucks. That will save you from whooping cough and measles better than a two dollar vaccine oh yes it will!
I think you should google it. You are the one who brought it up. Everyone in our office, doctor and nurse alike, is very aware of the flu immunizations and no one has ever heard anything about febrile seizures from the flu mist.
It's funny that a doctor opposed to immunizations has extreme credibility among the anti-immunizaiton crowd, but those who are in favor of IZs are just "tools", etc.
The truth is that neuro-surgeons, hand surgeons, etc do not give immunizations and therefore have no reason to know much about them, just as we, in a pediatric office, do not give Alzheimer's drugs and therefore don't know a lot about them!
Did you miss the part where I said I have pediatrician and gp friends? You, a nurse, would like to discredit them, also. Whatever.
I am not sure what your diatribe about doctors opposed to immunizations having credibilty and so forth.....once again, did you miss the part where I said I vaccinated my child and am in favor of vaccines??
Again, I say google flu mist and seizures - not hard to do.
If you want to call it cherry-picking, so be it. First the poster stated her pediatrician told her flu mist causes febrile seizures. I posted from the CDC and FDA that they do not, then she brings in all these other people.
And yeah, stayinformed40 and backspace, I'm just a dumb nurse with about 40 years experience in immunizations, including time in a county health department as an immunization specialist. Go ahead and shoot the messenger.
Over credit yourself much? Nurses are not on equal footing as a doctor and you know that.
A doctor who never works with immunizaitons does not know more about them than a nurse who works with them daily. Sorry you don't want to believe that.
I did google flu mist and seizures and guess what? Nothing supports what you are claiming.
One such example from the article, tells about a child whose parents refused to vaccinate him in 2008, then took him to Europe where he contracted the measles. When they got back to the U.S., 839 people were exposed, causing 49 children who were too young to have been vaccinated to have to be both vaccinated and quarantined, one of whom had to be hospitalized.
The article goes on to put figures to this situation:
"[The] average family cost [was] $775 per child. The total cost of the outbreak was $124,517, about $11,000 per case and substantially more for the hospitalized child. That was just in the money the county and state spent to clean the mess up, and doesn't take into the account the costs to private insurers."
So, should parents who refuse to vaccinate their children be considered a potential health danger to the public, and be forced to either pay significantly higher premiums to cover their childrens' health care; be forced to refund the government, families and insurers their costs when their unvaccinated child causes a public outbreak or quarantine; or should it be a protected right for parents not to vaccinate their children, with no consequences should others suffer medically because of their (in)actions?
They should pay MUCH higher premiums, from their prison cells where they do their time after conviction on child-endangerment charges.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
There's a reason why nurses can't prescribe drugs or do surgical procedures. I appreciate what people go through to become a nurse but it's nothing compared to a doctor's requirements especially someone in a specialized field. I work in the medical industry and spend most of my days dealing with nurses, X-ray techs, surgical techs and other medical industry professionals but the final word will always come down to a licensed doctor or surgeon.
