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While I support a person's civil right to privacy to do as they want with their own bodies, including vaccinations, in this case I believe that if your choice ends up adversely affecting others' health, and results in out-of-pocket expenses to individuals and governments, and increased insurance premiums spread throughout the pool, that those individuals responsible should be personally held liable financially.
First, read up on the detailed research of vaccinations. The science of the matter is not "definitive" and there are contests to the conclusions made concerning many of the vaccines available today.
There are so many problems with medical research these days (it is often as much of a joke as climate science conclusions) that to even begin to entertain mandates concerning them is a grievous error in judgment and an oppressive manner of dictation.
[quote=Jill61;17557719]If you would like to start a poll inquiring as to whether the obese should be charged higher insurance premiums, go right ahead. That's not what this thread is addressing. Please attempt to stay on topic. Not doing so is actually a violation of the TOS here.
Oh, thank you for reminding me of the TOS, it's funny that I hadn't noticed the gold star next to your name...oh right, it's because it's not there.
Anyway back at the batcave I'm pretty sure in my first post I said that if we don't overcharge other people in society that engage in risky behavior that also affect the general populace then why start with the kids. YOU chose to go elsewhere.
First, read up on the detailed research of vaccinations. The science of the matter is not "definitive" and there are contests to the conclusions made concerning many of the vaccines available today.
There are so many problems with medical research these days (it is often as much of a joke as climate science conclusions) that to even begin to entertain mandates concerning them is a grievous error in judgment and an oppressive manner of dictation.
Yeah polio, diphtheria and smallpox are completely unfamiliar to the American public today because of problems with medical research.
Please do some reading of your own. Vaccines have history dating back hundreds of years. Many of us are alive today solely because of them. Mandates are necessary to make sure that truly ill informed people do not pose a threat to the rest of us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sickofnyc99
Oh, thank you for reminding me of the TOS, it's funny that I hadn't noticed the gold star next to your name...oh right, it's because it's not there.
Anyway back at the batcave I'm pretty sure in my first post I said that if we don't overcharge other people in society that engage in risky behavior that also affect the general populace then why start with the kids. YOU chose to go elsewhere.
Obesity and smoking aren't contagious. Fetuses go blind, deaf and mentally retarded from rubella. Little kids cough their lungs out from whooping cough. The immuno-compromised can get sick from measles. There's a huge difference between the two scenarios.
Obesity and smoking aren't contagious. Fetuses go blind, deaf and mentally retarded from rubella. Little kids cough their lungs out from whooping cough. The immuno-compromised can get sick from measles. There's a huge difference between the two scenarios.[/quote]
Well, I disagree. How many kids start smoking because their friends do? How many kids are fat because their parents are fat? Fat people go blind from diabetes, people get stage 4 lung cancer from smoking. I don't really feel that the two scenarios are all that different.
Well, I disagree. How many kids start smoking because their friends do? How many kids are fat because their parents are fat? Fat people go blind from diabetes, people get stage 4 lung cancer from smoking. I don't really feel that the two scenarios are all that different.
There's a huge difference between the deliberate idiocy of the anti-vax nuts and someone who smokes or gets diabetes. If you don't vaccinate why should MY baby be at risk because of your stupidity? That has nothing to do with someone genetic predisposition to get diabetes from less than ideal life choices.
Non-vaccination should have serious consequences because it already does. If you're going to spark an epidemic you ought to be held liable.
There's a huge difference between the deliberate idiocy of the anti-vax nuts and someone who smokes or gets diabetes. If you don't vaccinate why should MY baby be at risk because of your stupidity? That has nothing to do with someone genetic predisposition to get diabetes from less than ideal life choices.
Non-vaccination should have serious consequences because it already does. If you're going to spark an epidemic you ought to be held liable.
Must you insult those who don't agree with your philosophy regarding vaccinations?
So far, I have yet to see this "epidemic" you're talking about in this country. Where are they? The one Katiana posted didn't seem to have anything to do with a unvaccinated child.
Quote:
Well one of them did this a few months ago:
Yes, ONE. Where are the rest?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jill61
You grok the concept of an example, right?
I think we need more than ONE example to justify the premise of your OP. Put them up.
There is a pertussis epidemic in California. I'm currently using a computer where I can't cut and paste, but you can certainly google it or look at some of the other threads on this topic. There have been thousands of cases and ten deaths of babies too young to be fully immunized. In fact, I believe it's been discussed in this thread, too.
When I get back to my other computer, I will post some links to some other recent outbreaks. It is untrue that the link I posted about the cost of the pertussis outbreak in Omaha was not caused by an unimmunized child. The truth is that article was focusing on cost of the outbreak, and we don't know whether the index case was immunized.
ETA: It's not always an unimmunized person who starts an epidemic, but it's generally the unimmunized and/or underimmunized who get sick and continue the outbreak.
Last edited by Katarina Witt; 01-24-2011 at 10:30 PM..
It's time we stopped subsidizing people having children through the tax code, insurance rates, and a thousand other ways. We are not a nation desperate to fill a frontier before another nation can claim it.
We are a nation who saw the governnment and Big Business conspire to overload the Labor Market so that wages stagnated in the 1970s. Open door immigration, transferring the costs of childrearing from parents to society, encouraging and subsidizing everyone to go to college, and adopting "Free Trade" and Globalization all conspired to reduce our formerly prosperous Middle Class to a massive group of desperate wanna-be workers that are racing to Third World status. Our government did this to us, but we need to stop it now.
If we want a nation that a child has a chance at living a decent life, we need to stop paying people to over-breed and further make the Labor Pool the joke that it is today.
Personal note: it is sickening to see all the recent college graduates in my extended family (upper-Middle-class, top honors, super hard workers, not spoiled at all and wonderful to work with) still looking for jobs after graduating last May, and in some cases the year before. When my spouse and I graduated in 1983, that was statistically the worst year on record for college graduate hires--we ended up being a Navy family with a top-of-the-class Chemical Engineering degree holder. But at least if we hadn't been so poor we had to join the military, that particular "jobless recovery" at least had begun to recover a year later. Nothing is turning around for our family's graduates, and they all went into the only supposed "safe" fields like nursing and police/prison administration. These young adults are still doing part-time, retail, minimum wage work.
It should be obvious to all that our government has destroyed our economy with overtaxation and overregulation, and that things are not going to actually recover until we do a 180 degree turnabout and abandon the path to socialism and hopelessness. How many "lost decades" does it take before we learn the lessons of nations like Japan and England?
It's time we stopped subsidizing people having children through the tax code, insurance rates, and a thousand other ways. We are not a nation desperate to fill a frontier before another nation can claim it.
We are a nation who saw the governnment and Big Business conspire to overload the Labor Market so that wages stagnated in the 1970s. Open door immigration, transferring the costs of childrearing from parents to society, encouraging and subsidizing everyone to go to college, and adopting "Free Trade" and Globalization all conspired to reduce our formerly prosperous Middle Class to a massive group of desperate wanna-be workers that are racing to Third World status. Our government did this to us, but we need to stop it now.
If we want a nation that a child has a chance at living a decent life, we need to stop paying people to over-breed and further make the Labor Pool the joke that it is today.
Personal note: it is sickening to see all the recent college graduates in my extended family (upper-Middle-class, top honors, super hard workers, not spoiled at all and wonderful to work with) still looking for jobs after graduating last May, and in some cases the year before. When my spouse and I graduated in 1983, that was statistically the worst year on record for college graduate hires--we ended up being a Navy family with a top-of-the-class Chemical Engineering degree holder. But at least if we hadn't been so poor we had to join the military, that particular "jobless recovery" at least had begun to recover a year later. Nothing is turning around for our family's graduates, and they all went into the only supposed "safe" fields like nursing and police/prison administration. These young adults are still doing part-time, retail, minimum wage work.
It should be obvious to all that our government has destroyed our economy with overtaxation and overregulation, and that things are not going to actually recover until we do a 180 degree turnabout and abandon the path to socialism and hopelessness. How many "lost decades" does it take before we learn the lessons of nations like Japan and England?
Nice rant. What's your point again?
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