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You did not know that politicians can change laws and make amendments? (as directly related to the hypothetical in the original post)
Furthermore, you did not know a priori that it is entirely possible that government could in fact, collapse entirely.... and that the ethical rules human beings live by, of which obligation is one of those concepts, may still apply (to anyone that isn't a moral nihilist), even absent government?
Or perhaps you think the world collapses into a state of moral nihilism where no ethical rules need apply, absent formal government? If this fact escaped you, that government can (and do) collapse (as well as the fact that laws can change - as per the hypothetical in the original post), then that is your failing for having a lack of foresight. Were you just expecting that it would always be the case, that people shall forever more have the privilege of sucking off the government tit?
Last edited by FreedomThroughAnarchism; 03-12-2011 at 04:04 PM..
Of course this should include public higher education as well. No community colleges or public universities, including medical/dental schools and teaching hospitals. Imagine the savings!
The students of higher education schools are paying tuition, however, a lower tuition than they would be paying than if they attended a private school. That means that teaching hospitals would not cease to exist if public funding was removed. It would actually be a good idea b/c then patients would be helping to subsidize the cost of running the school. At my massage school, we had student clinics and that helped buy supplies. Why couldn't the same work for teaching hospitals?
Just by the virtue of being a human being you are at risk of someday somehow becoming a burden on somebody at some point. Even you. Should you find yourself incapacitated to the point where you are no longer in control of your body or your mental capacities, somebody is going to have to assist you in some manner, even if it's just to help you facilitate your suicide.
And do you choose to not recognize the distinction between people taking on burdens voluntarily out of care, versus compelling an obligation on society writ large, by force?
Having a family member, a friend, or even a willing stranger aid you in a time of need voluntarily, is substantively different that compelling that aid by force. Why would I object to anyone aiding others out of a sense of caring, or even if they are doing it not so much out of caring, but for other reasons - perhaps they think quid pro quo, or perhaps they simply think it sets the precedence for fostering a "positive environment" in society where people do good deeds for each other voluntarily, and so helping somebody today may increase the likelehood that such good fortune may be returned to them by another in the future, at a time when they may need it.
Last edited by FreedomThroughAnarchism; 03-12-2011 at 04:32 PM..
You did not know that politicians can change laws and make amendments?
Perhaps instead of a book on conception, I should get you a book on civics and governance.
In the event that happens, and all schools are privatized, would you care to answer my question? I'll repeat it for you: what happens to the millions of students currently enrolled in public school that cannot afford the 11/12k per year and up tuition? You know, the ones that were born and enrolled in school before these laws were changed and amendments were made?
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreedomThroughAnarchism
Furthermore, you did not know a priori that it is entirely possible that government could in fact, collapse entirely.... and that the ethical rules human beings live by, of which obligation is one of those concepts, may still apply (to anyone that isn't a moral nihilist), even absent government?
Or perhaps you think the world collapses into a state of moral nihilism where no ethical rules need apply, absent formal government?
So one should have socked away $150,00 per child in case the government collapses so one can fund their so far fictional private school obligation, or if not be labelled unethical and a moral nihilist?
I would imagine, however, that should formal government suddenly collapse entirely, that how to pay for one's child's education would be the least of one's concerns.
This is probably the only country in the world where large numbers of people feel like it's perfectly fine to incarcerate somebody for $20,000 to $40,000 a year rather than educate them for $10,000 a year.
Yes we are apsolutely brilliant, that is why we are not even near the top when educating our children. The I don't give a hoot about education bunch here would be funny if it were not so sad.
Casper
The person who should be asking that single mother is FreedomThroughAnarchism, who's response to the question "what about parents who can't afford private school" was:
Perhaps you could read the posts in context, and you would have realized I was not the one making the assumption.
you have read other posts and by know should know that there are other solutions. i could make stupid arguments about public schools like what if a kid lived on a farm and it was too far away from a school. you counter, homeschool. i counter: nobody in the family can read or nobody on the farm has the time etc, something asinine like that. the point is that you're just being argumentative for argument sake and not adding to the debate
What happens to the millions of students currently enrolled in public school that cannot afford the 11/12k per year and up tuition?
The possibilities are varied, and may include, but definitely are not limited to:
(1) Making a concerted effort to find a more affordable school which may or may not be easier said than done, but that is probably the first step a parent might take.
(2) Borrowing money from a relative,
(3) Borrowing money from other institution, and if those fail, then
(4) see if one can work out an arrangement to have their schooled at home if not by that parent, then by a family member, friend or neighbor who may not currently work but could use th extra income,
(5) the parent could do it themselves, or
(6) the child may have to defer education temporarily until such time that circumstances are better. College students do th latter all the time, nationwide, as a matter of routine course.
(7) Figure out another option to those not listed above.
Needless to say, not liking the answers given doesn't mean there are no answers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinsterRufus
So one should have socked away $150,00 per child in case the government collapses so one can fund their so far fictional private school obligation, or if not be labelled unethical and a moral nihilist?
My answer to the underlying intent of your question is, yes. Does it have to be "$150k" exactly, no. But as with most purchases in life, they should try to budget the best they can. Failure to budget correctly is not a "death sentence." Like many things in life, it means adjustments may need to be made.
Many people are paying for schooling anyway. It's not as if most people are getting it for $0. So the notion that people are paying is already largely built into the current equation. It's merely a case that the current payment equation works a little differently.... it's more complicated, because it comes from all different taxes and different levels of governance, and some people are paying in this amount, and others that amount.... but the idea that people are already paying is by no means foreign, such that people should feign shock if we went to a more direct payment system.
** side note - Not sure why people often misunderstand my inclusion of moral nihilism into certain discussions of this kind. *shrugs* Slight tangent here.... but their inclusion is necessary if only because some moral nihilists exist in this world, and so I usually feel the need to mention them (as a matter of courtesy) because they often seem to get really angry when left out of the discussion. That comment wasn't really meant to apply to most people here. It's a 'just in case' there are any out there, they don't get pissed that I was throwing a false dichotomy their way. (They don't believe in the concept of morality - and so they often feel like the people who do believe in ethics/morality are forcing a false dichotomy on them... it kind of angers them).
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinsterRufus
I would imagine, however, that should formal government suddenly collapse entirely, that how to pay for one's child's education would be the least of one's concerns.
Indeed. Don't disagree.
Last edited by FreedomThroughAnarchism; 03-12-2011 at 04:50 PM..
you have read other posts and by know should know that there are other solutions. i could make stupid arguments about public schools like what if a kid lived on a farm and it was too far away from a school. you counter, homeschool. i counter: nobody in the family can read or nobody on the farm has the time etc, something asinine like that. the point is that you're just being argumentative for argument sake and not adding to the debate
No, I was asking a question of another poster and you came into the middle of it - you incorrectly assumed that I said home schooling was the only alternative.... so now I'm argumentative as well as idiotic. OK.
It's all very well for somebody to propose an idea and not care about the logistics, to say it's only the problem of those with kids. But the logistics are a little tiny detail that perhaps should be taken into consideration if you're going to back such a proposal.
You may think it's stupid and asinine to want to hear how this would work practically speaking. I would like to hear the options, and how it would pertain to everybody, not just the people who have a spare few grand or ten a year to fund their child's education.
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