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No, I was asking a question of another poster and you came into the middle of it - you incorrectly assumed that I said home schooling was the only alternative.... so now I'm argumentative as well as idiotic. OK.
It's all very well for somebody to propose an idea and not care about the logistics, to say it's only the problem of those with kids. But the logistics are a little tiny detail that perhaps should be taken into consideration if you're going to back such a proposal.
You may think it's stupid and asinine to want to hear how this would work practically speaking. I would like to hear the options, and how it would pertain to everybody, not just the people who have a spare few grand or ten a year to fund their child's education.
apologies for my abruptness, just annoyed because there are some on this thread who insist on being obstructive. one twit insists on following me around to argue semantics! the point is what did said mother do before her kids were of school age? what did said mother do when her kids were babies?
i'd argue that we live in a charitable country with soup kitchens, firemen and police volunteers. we live in a world with the red cross, hospice, wwf, doctors without borders, a nd thousands of other charities and volunteers. yet suggest that some people would volunteer their time to teach underpriveleged kids and the your opponents want to send you for psychiatric evaluation
apologies for my abruptness, just annoyed because there are some on this thread who insist on being obstructive. one twit insists on following me around to argue semantics! the point is what did said mother do before her kids were of school age? what did said mother do when her kids were babies?
i'd argue that we live in a charitable country with soup kitchens, firemen and police volunteers. we live in a world with the red cross, hospice, wwf, doctors without borders, a nd thousands of other charities and volunteers. yet suggest that some people would volunteer their time to teach underpriveleged kids and the your opponents want to send you for psychiatric evaluation
In a supposedly first world country, I do not think that charity is a particularly good substitute for a properly organized educational system.
(1) Making a concerted effort to find a more affordable school which may or may not be easier said than done, but that is probably the first step a parent might take.
(2) Borrowing money from a relative,
(3) Borrowing money from other institution, and if those fail, then
(4) see if one can work out an arrangement to have their schooled at home if not by that parent, then by a family member, friend or neighbor who may not currently work but could use th extra income,
(5) the parent could do it themselves, or
(6) the child may have to defer education temporarily until such time that circumstances are better. College students do th latter all the time, nationwide, as a matter of routine course.
(7) Figure out another option to those not listed above.
Needless to say, not liking the answers given doesn't mean there are no answers.
Thank you for listing some options without insulting me in the process. The problem I see here, is that we're talking about all children, all children that go through a process that takes years for families to complete, and for families with more than one child who are spaced apart in age, that process could take 20-25 years or so. Throughout those years, circumstances and family dynamics change - the one constant you can count on now as a parent regardless of your socio-economic status or your access to extended family is that there will always be a school you can send your child to no matter what constants change throughout your life.
Or the child's life, for that matter. If the child is orphaned, and have grandparents with little means, or has parents that simply don't care - for all your wish that it not be your problem, the child who is unable to find a solution to this problem by their own means will eventually become even more of a burden than they would be otherwise if school was not universally available to them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreedomThroughAnarchism
My answer to the underlying intent of your question is, yes. Does it have to be "$150k" exactly, no. But as with most purchases in life, they should try to budget the best they can.
Yes, the numbers are a big factor. If they are anywhere near what they are now, for private school, they'd simply be out of reach for a large number of people - who are otherwise quite capable of contributing without burdening others.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreedomThroughAnarchism
Many people are paying for schooling anyway. It's not as if most people are getting it for $0. So the notion that people are paying is already largely built into the current equation. It's merely a case that the current payment equation works a little differently.... it's more complicated, because it comes from all different taxes and different levels of governance, and some people are paying in this amount, and others that amount.... but the idea that people are already paying is by no means foreign, such that people should feign shock if we went to a more direct payment system.
That's true. Somebody suggested earlier, though, that the notion that say property tax would be eliminated because the govt no longer funds schools would likely be false - it would just go toward something else instead. It depends, again - on the numbers, and there are going to be those with zero inability to pay - and the argument that those people shouldn't have kids in the first place is a whole other can of worms. Somebody's going to have to assist those kids. Is it going to be philanthropic efforts? I don't know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreedomThroughAnarchism
** side note - Not sure why people often misunderstand my inclusion of moral nihilism into certain discussions of this kind. *shrugs* Slight tangent here.... but their inclusion is necessary if only because some moral nihilists exist in this world, and so I usually feel the need to mention them (as a matter of courtesy) because they often seem to get really angry when left out of the discussion. That comment wasn't really meant to apply to most people here. It's a 'just in case' there are any out there, they don't get pissed that I was throwing a false dichotomy their way. (They don't believe in the concept of morality - and so they often feel like the people who do believe in ethics/morality are forcing a false dichotomy on them... it kind of angers them).
I would never get pissed about somebody throwing a false dichotomy.
I care less about there being "public schools," and more whether they are user-fee based.
Much like Social Security and any most other programs people tend to want, just so long as it is opt-in, and user-fee based, with no penalties attached for those not opting in, then I have little normative objection.
Some people have legal, constitutional or procedural arguments against these things, but that's somewhat in its own category from the normative (the way we think it ought to be).
Some might wish that such an arrangement could be mutually beneficial and a near optimal solution which may satisfy each group, as each group could avail themselves of the option they prefer if that choice fits them best. Alas, some do not care for that solution because they want almost everyone to be a part of it, with no choice. That saddens me. The criticism cuts both ways, as each side may have some guilty of wanting it only one way.
Last edited by FreedomThroughAnarchism; 03-12-2011 at 05:49 PM..
America should close down all schools, from elementary to university. Only those that can survive with private students will operate.
Duh, how much education do ya needs ta unnersatnd fox news?
As long as Americans know how to spell g-u-n, J-e-s-u-s, and NASCAR, that's enough edukashun, ain't it?
In a supposedly first world country, I do not think that charity is a particularly good substitute for a properly organized educational system.
i think it's pretty clear that throwing more money at it won't fix the problem. we've been doing that for years and it doesn't work. we could go down the voucher route, but although i think it would be better than it is now, abuse would be rife. i'd prefer to go down the route of low cost private schooling. for those who couldn't afford that, we'd have to have charity schools. i attended catholic school. half the parents there couldn't afford it and were covered by the school
America should close down all schools, from elementary to university. Only those that can survive with private students will operate.
Duh, how much education do ya needs ta unnersatnd fox news?
As long as Americans know how to spell g-u-n, J-e-s-u-s, and NASCAR, that's enough edukashun, ain't it?
to think that the left consider themselves tolerant and open minded.
to think that the left consider themselves tolerent and open minded.
All duh edukashun in duh woild sure don't help shoot dose 3 pointers or score touchdowns, the really important reason that kids done went to skool.
America don't need no educasion!
I think it could work. I liken it to how we eat. Many of us pay for food out of our own pockets. Many of us (occasionally) eat at privately owned restaurants. These food establishments are regulated to make sure they are run in a hygenic manner. Law enforcement is occasionally brought in to keep the peace (eg., unruly clientele, shoplifters, etc). Those who can't afford to pay for their own food are given vouchers in the form of food stamps.
Everyone should have the option to go to private schools. Private schools could be regulated by an agency to make sure they are on par w/ academic standards. The very needy would get vouchers so that they could also attend private school.
It would be worth it to do a market analysis on a government-run food establishment and a privately run food establishment to see which one is run cheaper, type of food being the same. I think I know who would win.
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