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Old 04-19-2011, 09:31 AM
 
Location: East Lansing, MI
28,353 posts, read 16,375,109 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Backspace View Post
Why not have everyone (yes everyone) pay 10% or 15% in federal income tax or whatever it takes to run a basic limited government, wouldn't that be fair?
Not really, no.
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Old 04-19-2011, 09:37 AM
 
33,016 posts, read 27,449,790 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amaznjohn View Post
Here's an excerpt from a blogger, who explains it very well.

"Renter-occupied housing under the present Income tax is paid with after-tax dollars.
Renter-occupied housing under the FairTax is paid with pre-tax dollars, plus there will be a pre-bate added to the renters income to stretch his/her dollar further.

Since investment property is not taxed under the FairTax, but the rents are taxed, the rental property will not be subject to double taxation.

An example in the FairTax Research information compared the Income Tax structure with the FairTax structure using $500 in monthly rents. With a 15% income tax bracket, the renter would have to earn $647 in order to pay his income taxes and payroll taxes and have $500 left to pay his rent.

Under the FairTax structure, the $500 rent plus the 23% sales tax amounts to $649, $2 more than the income tax in order to cover his rent. HOWEVER, in comes the pre-bate to the rescue! And that renter has only had to use $2 of his monthly pre-bate to pay his rent, leaving the remainder to pay the taxes on his medical bills, dental bills, groceries, etc."
FairTax Blog: DOES THE FAIRTAX TAX RENTALS?

Two obvious problems (and more I'll add in a separate reply):

Many renters are in the 10% tax bracket, so they currently do not need to earn as many pre-tax dollars to pay the rent.

It's incorrect to refer to "...the $500 rent plus the 23% sales tax" when it should be "...the $500 rent plus the 30% sales tax."

Post-tax earnings required to pay rent will increase under the Fair Tax.
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Old 04-20-2011, 05:18 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
37,455 posts, read 61,373,044 times
Reputation: 30403
'fair' is what you pay to ride along in the game; to get into a circus, a bus or a train.

Nothing about life is 'fair'. One person is born missing arms or feet, while another person Is perfectly healthy. One is born into wealth, while another is born into poverty.

There is not fair.

There is nothing that you can do or create here that would make life fair.



A flat tax only works on wage-slaves.

If you run a business, it makes no sense. A business man decides what his net income is.
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Old 04-20-2011, 06:20 AM
 
3,566 posts, read 3,732,501 times
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There is much to recommend the fair tax. For one thing people under the fair tax determine how much tax they pay, not the government. And you determine that by increasing or decreasing your consumption. Likely the "rich" will pay more in taxes than they do now because there are no loopholes in the tax code to exploit. In other words, the corruption that is rife in the current tax code will be eliminated. And with the passing of tax loopholes will come the passing of most lobbying by special interest groups.

Another advantage is that the IRS will be disbanded saving billions of dollars. And countless more billions will be saved in tax compliance-related costs.

One down side will accrue to those who are retired. Currently retirees pay little in taxes because their income is so low. They look forward to that as a kind of reward for having paid into the system all their lives. A consumption tax would be a tax on their retirement they hadn't planned on.
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Old 04-20-2011, 06:27 AM
 
20,948 posts, read 19,046,327 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragneel View Post
"Replace the tax code so we can establish tax fairness for everybody. And no, it is not regressive on the poor like the liberals try to demagogue the idea of moving toward a fair tax which is a single rate retail consumption tax,"

RealClearPolitics - Video - Herman Cain: Replace Tax Code So We Can Establish Tax Fairness For Everyone

Agree
It makes too much sense.

Therefore, our politicians will not even consider it!
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Old 04-20-2011, 06:48 AM
 
1,233 posts, read 1,218,160 times
Reputation: 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by Backspace View Post
Why not have everyone (yes everyone) pay 10% or 15% in federal income tax or whatever it takes to run a basic limited government, wouldn't that be fair?
Yes.

It would be more fair to have more people pay some income taxes.

If you make more than poverty level income, you should be paying some taxes.

This will make people pay more attention to what our politicians are spending our money on.

Exempt the first 15-20K of income and tax the remainder at 3 rates.

30% on incomes up to $500K.

35% on incomes over $500K up to $5 million.

40% on all incomes over $5 million.

Tax all capital gains above the 1st 50K at 30% above the first 50K up to 500K.

Tax 35% on gains over 500K up to 5 Million.

Tax 40% on gains over 5 Million.

Eliminate all exemptions with the possible exception of charities.

Make the corporations pay their taxes if they do business in the U.S.

Easy enough to do and could work.
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Old 04-20-2011, 06:51 AM
 
Location: Fort Worth Texas
12,481 posts, read 10,220,491 times
Reputation: 2536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smash255 View Post
Jacking up the taxes on the working and middle class to give even more tax cuts to the wealthy is many things. Fair isn't one of those things....
If you read and understand the fair tax you would see the errors in thinking
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Old 04-20-2011, 06:54 AM
 
Location: Fort Worth Texas
12,481 posts, read 10,220,491 times
Reputation: 2536
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtimer2 View Post
Yes.

It would be more fair to have more people pay some income taxes.

If you make more than poverty level income, you should be paying some taxes.

This will make people pay more attention to what our politicians are spending our money on.

Exempt the first 15-20K of income and tax the remainder at 3 rates.

30% on incomes up to $500K.

35% on incomes over $500K up to $5 million.

40% on all incomes over $5 million.

Tax all capital gains above the 1st 50K at 30% above the first 50K up to 500K.

Tax 35% on gains over 500K up to 5 Million.

Tax 40% on gains over 5 Million.

Eliminate all exemptions with the possible exception of charities.

Make the corporations pay their taxes if they do business in the U.S.

Easy enough to do and could work.
Some of this I could go along with. however when you tax a corporation who do you think will pay for that tax. the corporation will only pass that cost to consumers. So we all will be paying for that corporate tax by higher prices. You really can not think the corporations will just absorb the costs of a tax and not pas it on in the price of their goods?
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Old 04-20-2011, 07:02 AM
 
1,233 posts, read 1,218,160 times
Reputation: 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by wjtwet View Post
If you read and understand the fair tax you would see the errors in thinking
Calling any Value Added or Sales tax a "Fair Tax" is a misnomer.

That is like calling Ryan's health care plan Discount Coupons... Premium Support.

Premium Support sounds like a jock strap for Insurance company magnates.
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Old 04-20-2011, 07:08 AM
 
1,233 posts, read 1,218,160 times
Reputation: 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by wjtwet View Post
Some of this I could go along with. however when you tax a corporation who do you think will pay for that tax. the corporation will only pass that cost to consumers. So we all will be paying for that corporate tax by higher prices. You really can not think the corporations will just absorb the costs of a tax and not pas it on in the price of their goods?
If we do not tax corporations on income, the stockholders will be able to amass and compound their wealth untaxed via a corporate pass through.

I never was a big fan of corporate taxes as I see them as a form of double taxation.

Got a good solution as to how to keep it fair?
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