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Old 04-30-2011, 06:05 AM
 
13,005 posts, read 18,901,622 times
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Several have said all you have to do is shrink government. How is that going to persuade corporations to bring jobs to the U.S., repair and upgrade the infrastructure, stem the flow of illegals, or ease the crushing student loan debt of college graduates?
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Old 04-30-2011, 06:16 AM
 
Location: North Cackelacky....in the hills.
19,567 posts, read 21,866,149 times
Reputation: 2519
Quote:
Originally Posted by pvande55 View Post
Several have said all you have to do is shrink government. How is that going to persuade corporations to bring jobs to the U.S., repair and upgrade the infrastructure, stem the flow of illegals, or ease the crushing student loan debt of college graduates?
Less gov. spending means less need for tax money,meaning lower taxes.

Coroporations canbe persuaded to come back through various means.

Repairing and upgrading infrastructure is possible when gov. is spending less on other programs.

Illegals is pretty easily solved,it just isn't popular politically.

Student loan debt is a non-issue,the student doesn't have to take out the loan.
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Old 04-30-2011, 07:29 AM
 
624 posts, read 1,121,324 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oz in SC View Post
We should be more like the European nations....where do they get their energy from again???
most of it from Rusia.
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Old 04-30-2011, 07:37 AM
 
Location: Rational World Park
4,991 posts, read 4,504,251 times
Reputation: 2375
People are so caught up in this hollywood driven illusion that America was once this wonderful oasis..That's nonsense. Today, we just have more access to information and all the dirt and crap going on is exposed. There's always been poverty, hatred of all kinds, rampant embraced ignorance, a class divide, political rangling etc. It's just that today, it's broadcast on the news 24 hours a day and people scritinze everything real or made up. This is the America we've always had.
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Old 04-30-2011, 07:54 AM
 
19,226 posts, read 15,317,471 times
Reputation: 2337
Quote:
Originally Posted by pollyrobin View Post
We need to return to Industrial Hemp
Hard core realist!
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Old 04-30-2011, 09:11 AM
 
5,252 posts, read 4,674,085 times
Reputation: 17362
Most of the posts herein have already accepted the notion of a historic America that was a monolithic construct, united, coherent, and moving in a consensual direction. Of course it wasn't but that doesn't stop most from seeing this nation from their ideal of everyone in agreement, marching in lockstep to the beat of a single drummer rather than the reality of a nation sharply divided against itself.

Lacking a claim to a formal culture we have adapted to the post war notion of the definition of dominant nation as that which leads in sheer financial strength, while most Euro nations are thought to be a reflection of their long histories as the bastions of art, music, and literature, we have only our recent ascension to the world stage as an economic wonder as our claim to fame.

All in all, America is still the quirky wildly successful nation of misfits who are carving out their own niche in world history as a country that while divided socially and economically still brings home the bacon in it's own way. We are now nearing our cultural maturity with our Jazz, Blues, art and modern literature, we still produce more stuff than most of the world combined, we are never in agreement but like most families we would probably be able to fend off any and all challengers to our quirky ways.

The larger picture of the state of world affairs affords us a unique position to view the possible collapse of many older and more economically stable nations, the US is huge in it's comparative scale with most nations, we can absorb the shock of some terrific blows to our economy, we can still be in the running when most countries are down for the count. It's been a long and wild ride from our past to this present day debacle we find ourselves in, and yes we are in deep doo doo but that's not unusual for us, our short and not so sweet history tells the real story. For better or worse we are constantly moving, laterally, forward, sometimes backwards, but moving nonetheless. We are a blur of perpetual motion, and when something as big as America is moving it doesn't necessarily need an existing road or path to find it's direction, it makes it own path and others follow. We're down but not out, I guess we'll find the wisdom in the old saying, "may you live in interesting times".
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Old 04-30-2011, 03:09 PM
 
6,790 posts, read 8,197,154 times
Reputation: 6998
Quote:
Originally Posted by oz in SC View Post
Less gov. spending means less need for tax money,meaning lower taxes.

Coroporations canbe persuaded to come back through various means.

Repairing and upgrading infrastructure is possible when gov. is spending less on other programs.

Illegals is pretty easily solved,it just isn't popular politically.

Student loan debt is a non-issue,the student doesn't have to take out the loan.
These are way overly simplified answers. For one, student loan debt is not a non issue, the cost of college has grown to insane amounts, the days of working your way through are over, maybe you get a two year degree that way, but even those schools are raising tuition WAY more than inflation every year, grants are disappearing. I worked all through school, yet still needed a loan to finish my masters degree. Today's young parents will still be paying their own loans when their kids go to college, so those kids can forget about a college fund.

A college degree is needed for most decent paying jobs in this country, one will have a hard time getting even a secretarial position w/o a degree these days. I used to work in HR and can tell you everyone wants employees with a degree whether that degree is necessary for the job or not, you need the degree to get in the door. Not to mention other countries subsidize higher education, we need an educated workforce to compete in the global economy. We have a generation of students graduating with large debt levels and the interest is often quite high, they will be giving a huge chunk of their income to the banks every month for 10-30 years, all that money will not be going into the economy, the banks will take it all, which affects everyone's businesses, and the general economy, not just the students themselves who can't afford houses, or children.

Last edited by detshen; 04-30-2011 at 03:19 PM..
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Old 04-30-2011, 03:14 PM
 
6,790 posts, read 8,197,154 times
Reputation: 6998
Quote:
Originally Posted by pvande55 View Post
Several have said all you have to do is shrink government. How is that going to persuade corporations to bring jobs to the U.S., repair and upgrade the infrastructure, stem the flow of illegals, or ease the crushing student loan debt of college graduates?
It won't do a thing to help any of those problems.
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Old 04-30-2011, 03:43 PM
 
Location: Central Ohio
10,834 posts, read 14,931,891 times
Reputation: 16587
Quote:
Originally Posted by Observation View Post
I really don't see us turning this national debt around, and I really don't see a bright future with all the BS going on in politics and big business.

I really think its all over for us, I'm thinking the US will become the first 3rd world country with 1st world infrastructure within the next 20 years.
Many felt the exact same way in 1980 under Jimmy Carter yet our best years were before us.

We don't have a debt problem we have a spending problem.


This is like someone who earns $60,000/year, enough to live comfortably in nearly any location, yet charges $2,000.month running up credit cards in order to live the lifestyle he thinks he deserves. No problem with this but eventually payments on the credit cards exceed his income and now he has a problem. A big one.

We need to abolish the department of education that educates nobody, the department of defense budget has to be cut by 50%, foreign aid needs to be eliminated and eliminated also are the departments of energy and HUD.

Also abolish the EPA and OSHA not because I want dirty water or an unsafe workplace but we do not have the money, we can not afford it. What part of "we've broke" do you not understand?

That is just a start.

The food stamp program needs to be eliminated as does federally funded unemployment insurance.

The real tough one is social security. The earnings cap on social security needs to be lifted... sorry but if you earn $1 million a year that entire amount has to be subject to social security taxes.

The real hard one is cuts in social security benefits for everyone. We are to generous and the generation behind us, many of you are in it, can not afford these generous benefits.

OK, I plan to work forever and start taking social security at age 70. At age 70 my benefit is estimated to be $2,900/month and my wife is entitled to half of that for an additional $1,450/month for a total social security benefit of $4,350/month or $52,200 per year. On that $52,200/year I will not pay social security taxes and in my state, as in many others including California, my retirement benefits are totally exempt from state income taxes up to $60,000 for a couple. Considering taxes the take home "pay" is about equal to that of some poor slob who works hard, still has a mortgage (I don't), is raising two children and earns $60,000/year with much of his money transferred to me so I can sit home on my dead ass.

Thank you future generations and now bend over, grab your ankles and cry out "Thank you sir, may I have another!"

It is evil.

Social security benefits need to be cut by 20% for everybody. I'll struggle and muddle through on $41,750/year.

$41,750/year. Think about that. When considering the tax breaks, no federal FICA tax and the exemption to retirement income that many states give, that is equal to a $25/hour job and I venture to guess there are a few of you reading this that don't earn that much in your regular 40 hour week job.

As far as the military the only military we have in the world should be on ships or along the US/Mexico border.

I have children, I am a grandfather and I don't want to leave them with a destroyed country and that is what our fiscal policies are doing. I want my children and grandchildren to have a better life than I did.
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Old 04-30-2011, 03:57 PM
 
6,790 posts, read 8,197,154 times
Reputation: 6998
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicet4 View Post
Many felt the exact same way in 1980 under Jimmy Carter yet our best years were before us.

We don't have a debt problem we have a spending problem.


This is like someone who earns $60,000/year, enough to live comfortably in nearly any location, yet charges $2,000.month running up credit cards in order to live the lifestyle he thinks he deserves. No problem with this but eventually payments on the credit cards exceed his income and now he has a problem. A big one.

We need to abolish the department of education that educates nobody, the department of defense budget has to be cut by 50%, foreign aid needs to be eliminated and eliminated also are the departments of energy and HUD.

Also abolish the EPA and OSHA not because I want dirty water or an unsafe workplace but we do not have the money, we can not afford it. What part of "we've broke" do you not understand?

That is just a start.

The food stamp program needs to be eliminated as does federally funded unemployment insurance.

The real tough one is social security. The earnings cap on social security needs to be lifted... sorry but if you earn $1 million a year that entire amount has to be subject to social security taxes.

The real hard one is cuts in social security benefits for everyone. We are to generous and the generation behind us, many of you are in it, can not afford these generous benefits.

OK, I plan to work forever and start taking social security at age 70. At age 70 my benefit is estimated to be $2,900/month and my wife is entitled to half of that for an additional $1,450/month for a total social security benefit of $4,350/month or $52,200 per year. On that $52,200/year I will not pay social security taxes and in my state, as in many others including California, my retirement benefits are totally exempt from state income taxes up to $60,000 for a couple. Considering taxes the take home "pay" is about equal to that of some poor slob who works hard, still has a mortgage (I don't), is raising two children and earns $60,000/year with much of his money transferred to me so I can sit home on my dead ass.

Thank you future generations and now bend over, grab your ankles and cry out "Thank you sir, may I have another!"

It is evil.

Social security benefits need to be cut by 20% for everybody. I'll struggle and muddle through on $41,750/year.

$41,750/year. Think about that. When considering the tax breaks, no federal FICA tax and the exemption to retirement income that many states give, that is equal to a $25/hour job and I venture to guess there are a few of you reading this that don't earn that much in your regular 40 hour week job.

As far as the military the only military we have in the world should be on ships or along the US/Mexico border.

I have children, I am a grandfather and I don't want to leave them with a destroyed country and that is what our fiscal policies are doing. I want my children and grandchildren to have a better life than I did.
I agree with many of these ideas, especially social security, I used to work in HR and also did payroll, I couldn't believe how quickly the executives reached the SS cap and no longer had to pay, it was ridiculous, especially when I saw their take home income compared to the take home of lower level employees, and the benefits should be reduced. Military spending is a huge issue, and how can we justify all this foreign aid when many of our own citizens are in such bad shape.

I have to say I really appreciate someone who is willing to put their money where there mouth is, there are far too many people saying CUT, CUT, CUT, we have a spending problem, just don't you dare touch anything that benefits me.
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