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Old 05-05-2011, 09:06 PM
 
1,970 posts, read 1,761,839 times
Reputation: 991

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Quote:
Originally Posted by maja View Post
May I recommend Charlotte Iserbyte's, "The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America." This author worked within the Reagan Administration and was a whistleblower. Her book is full of factual, documented information; not just opinions.

We need to get rid of the Federal Department of Education and States need to offer some type of voucher system, which will bring choice, competition and quality to our schools.
That is an EXCELLENT book. It will be scary to those that just think everything is peachy fine with the department of education.

 
Old 05-05-2011, 09:10 PM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,882 posts, read 33,274,487 times
Reputation: 4269
Quote:
Originally Posted by lisa g View Post
Speaking for myself only, my critique of public schools has not entered the realm of partisan politics. My critique is squarely centered on academics being displaced by the emphasis on outcomes of attitude, values and compliance. In our district, students must comply with strict adherence to rigid perspectives on a number of non academic issues and We 75* students on our recent Honor Roll. Only some of our Honor Roll students are literate. Why are they on Honor Roll and what does that say about the rest of the student population if we have illiterates on Honor Roll? That fact alone supports the fact that we have a NON-academic merit based system.We have weak-to-no spelling, vocabulary, grammar and writing curriculum. We use reform math in a hyper-constructivist style with little-to-no direct math instruction. We have math scores dropping like a rock in Middle and High School, when most students should be enrolled in advanced math classes as used to be the norm.
I guess I need to go back and look for your long critique. I passed it up before but it sounds like I would really like seeing some truth for a change.

For all here I might inform you that you can see some of what is being said in this thread on Glenn Beck tomorrow. Shall I now name those who will never know any of that although the show will be based on what people bring in to him.
 
Old 05-05-2011, 09:15 PM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,882 posts, read 33,274,487 times
Reputation: 4269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimbochick View Post
Oh please, she is a conspiracy theorist. Her main belief is that (and I quote from her book)

"OBE practices test, monitor, and aim to alter the beliefs, attitudes and values of children, all pretty much without the knowledge or consent of the parents".

What really amuses me about these crazy allegations of brainwashing and mindcontrol, is that people are proposing a strict curriculum based on faith or "family values" (for whose family?), essentially turning back the clock to 50's style education. I haven't heard anyone suggest any new or innovative methodology.

And for the record the way people function in society and in the work place has changed dramatically over the last 50 years, we should be moving forward, not backwards. Process is becoming a much more important goal to understand and learn than one prescribed result.
I don't understand much of your last sentence but wonder if you misspelled progress as process.
 
Old 05-05-2011, 09:18 PM
 
6,993 posts, read 6,339,494 times
Reputation: 2824
Quote:
Originally Posted by lisa g View Post
Speaking for myself only, my critique of public schools has not entered the realm of partisan politics. My critique is squarely centered on academics being displaced by the emphasis on outcomes of attitude, values and compliance. In our district, students must comply with strict adherence to rigid perspectives on a number of non academic issues which innapropriately replace academic emphasis. Teachers must stick to specific pedagogy only, as part of teaching teams (if one strays from the pedagogy they bring the whole team down, and hard) OR ELSE! There were *75* students on a recent Honor Roll. Some of our Honor Roll students are actually illiterate. Why are they on Honor Roll and what does that say about the rest of the student population if we have illiterates on Honor Roll? This is the result of a NON academic merit based system.We have weak-to-no spelling, vocabulary, grammar and writing curriculum. We use reform math in a hyper-constructivist style with little-to-no direct math instruction. We have math scores dropping like a rock in Middle and High School, when most students should be enrolled in advanced math classes as used to be the norm. And we have capable students without the opportunity to develop their education, despite the fact that some claim they are 'learning how to learn'.
Where and when was this the norm?
 
Old 05-05-2011, 09:19 PM
 
6,993 posts, read 6,339,494 times
Reputation: 2824
Quote:
Originally Posted by roysoldboy View Post
I guess I need to go back and look for your long critique. I passed it up before but it sounds like I would really like seeing some truth for a change.

For all here I might inform you that you can see some of what is being said in this thread on Glenn Beck tomorrow. Shall I now name those who will never know any of that although the show will be based on what people bring in to him.
Geez, Roy, don't you ever get tired of pimping Beck's show???
 
Old 05-05-2011, 09:23 PM
 
Location: Geneva, IL
12,980 posts, read 14,566,426 times
Reputation: 14863
Quote:
Originally Posted by roysoldboy View Post
I don't understand much of your last sentence but wonder if you misspelled progress as process.
Nope, process, as in how you reach the answer, understanding the process, not just spitting out a correct answer without understanding how.
 
Old 05-05-2011, 09:53 PM
 
1,384 posts, read 4,452,661 times
Reputation: 1525
Whole Language School of Golf
 
Old 05-05-2011, 09:56 PM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,882 posts, read 33,274,487 times
Reputation: 4269
Quote:
Originally Posted by ray1945 View Post
Geez, Roy, don't you ever get tired of pimping Beck's show???
With people like you around who are afraid to take a chance and watch him tomorrow I will never tire of that. I knew you wouldn't watch and even knew about exactly what you would be replying. Won't you ever get tired of trying to trash him although you don't watch him?

Are you one of those who thought he was done at Fox when he took a week off?
 
Old 05-05-2011, 10:00 PM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,882 posts, read 33,274,487 times
Reputation: 4269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimbochick View Post
Nope, process, as in how you reach the answer, understanding the process, not just spitting out a correct answer without understanding how.
I had two boys who managed to get the right answers in junior high math without learning the basics of math. Yes, they were required to have scientific calculators and the answers were very easy to come by.

One of those boys had taken through Advanced Algebra and didn't know how to work decimals or fractions so I insisted that he take what I called bonehead math as a junior while his counselor wanted him to take calculus. My demand was very good for him since he went to a vo-tech school that involved working on diesel engines for tractors. I wonder just how much good that calculus course would have done him.

Is this an example of your process?
 
Old 05-05-2011, 10:23 PM
 
1,384 posts, read 4,452,661 times
Reputation: 1525
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimbochick View Post
Nope, process, as in how you reach the answer, understanding the process, not just spitting out a correct answer without understanding how.
Why do you default to the assumption that students who use their memories do not understand how or why an answer is correct and do not question? What low expectations you have of students regarding understanding and use of knowledge and practice. Why have you lost faith in students?

With so many graduating with education degrees but without degrees in specific areas of study, we have educators lacking knowledge students need and instead using pedagogy which conveniently replaces delivery of knowledge, explanations and stimulation of curiosity.

Ironically, those here who share the 'process' mindset are telling our student council it is mandatory to attend certain school board meetings in support of the school board. The irony is that the students of the student council have NO IDEA what issues will even be discussed, let alone any background, historical information or familiarity with anyone involved. Nor do they seek it out. "all must attend Thursday's meeting in the cafeteria at 7pm! Mandatory attendance for student council!" The empty compliance is stunningly chilling when you consider these students are all dependent on calculators and spell checking word processors despite the fact that 70% of our property taxes support our public schools, which include teachers salaries and benefits - only we do not have any teachers, we have 'facilitators', the 'guides on the side' watching students figure things out for themselves however they can, whenever they feel like doing so.
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