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I'm a Canadian who has travelled extensively in the USA. I also have a large extended family who are Americans. The entire subject of racism is something I have been very interested in my whole life because of the incredible differences that I observed between my American family and my Canadian family. My observation on the subject start back in the early 60's.
My American cousins were overt racists. They hated blacks and did not hesitate to say so. They had zero tolerance for blacks and they didn't like any other visable minorities either. They were predjudiced against even southern Europeans like Italians and Greeks also.
My Canadian family in comparison, were racist also, but their racism was very different. It was not overt in the least. It was a very subtle kind of racism, that to me at any rate bordered on Paternalism. It was not that they hated anyone but they thought that they were "better" than members of other races just because they were Anglo Saxons.
This kind of paternalistic racism is very easily broken down because it's really not based on hate but on a racial conceit. I found that this kind of attitude was in fact based on an ignorance and lack of actual contact with different peoples. I had rural Canadian cousins who had never even seen a black person untill they first visited Detriot when they were 16 years old.
The beginning of the seismic shift in race relations in Canada started in 1967 when Pierre Elliot Trudeau became Prime Minister. He was a leader who felt that any kind of racial disharmony has no place in a "Just Society" and he began to institute reforms that would hasten the end of such a state of affairs in this country.
To begin with he created an entire new department of the government called "The ministry of multiculturalism" and of course it's minister was now a member of the cabinet and tasked by the country with what we saw to be a very important portfolio. This federal department began to create programmes and mechanisms devoted entirely to integrating all the different hyphenated Canadians into the mainstream of Canadian life. Integrating not by erasing their cultural identity but by celebrating it and exposing all the other Canadians to it through festivals, education, immigration and federal assistance in promoting diverse culture.
This has been a mega success and the even the former "Covert racism" has been largely broken down over the last 40 years. Children are taught in school that racism is JUST NOT ACCEPTABLE in our great land. There is zero tolerance for it and the result is a whole generation of kids that just don't have any racial problems in the least.
All countries face many problems in the realm of equality of opportunities and true equality in all phases of national life. Everything from employment,housing, education,equal access to all government programmes and so on.
In Canada we have done well in these areas but we still need to do better until all Canadians are truely equal in all areas of national life.
Governments come and governments go but the legacy of PET lives on in this country.
"Towards a more just society" that was the trump card for a Canadian government that endured for 20 years from the 60's to the 80's. This legacy lives on and will never die because it has been inshrined in the new conststution this same government created for all Canadians.
My Canadian family in comparison, were racist also, but their racism was very different. It was not overt in the least. It was a very subtle kind of racism, that to me at any rate bordered on Paternalism. It was not that they hated anyone but they thought that they were "better" than members of other races just because they were Anglo Saxons.
Ahh, the old "that's different" argument. People who know me on this forum know I don't generally buy that. What you are describing in your Canadian family is similar to what one sees in many rural areas in the US. And bottom line is, racism is racism.
Ahh, the old "that's different" argument. People who know me on this forum know I don't generally buy that. What you are describing in your Canadian family is similar to what one sees in many rural areas in the US. And bottom line is, racism is racism.
I agree that it surely is. It's exhibited in very many ways. The intent of my post was to show that these attitudes can change very much in a period of time. They don't however change on their own in a vacuum so to speak. I fully understand that the USA has come a long long way in race relations in the last 50 years but that fact does not in any way mean that there is still not a long way to go. Many Americans hate the thought of "Social engineering" but that it exactly what is required if the fight against racism is to be won. Social engineering like. no more projects. Social housing can be done in so many different ways and the project model is just a total failure and recipe for disaster. Equality before the law. This is a situation that must really fester in the hearts of minority Americans. All it takes is a little study of conviction rated, length of sentences, access to decent defence and other issue to see clearly that there are two different standards for justice in the USA. I don't give a crap who objects to this statement, the numbers don't lie.
The way your education system is funded is so bad it's almost as if it were designed to keep the disadvantaged in their place at the bottom of the social scale. Poor districts have poor schools, period. That is the reality of life in the USA. In Canada the education system is funded by the province and the formula is per student. If you live in the poorest neighbourhood your kids will recieve the same resources as the kids from the richest neighbourhood in the province.
Your country is still not beyond trying to disenfranchise minority folks in whatever way they can. You finally got rid of the poll tax but the powers that be are very ingenious at creating barriers to voting.
These things that I'm pointing out here are just the tip of the racism iceberg that exists in the uSA and anyone who denies that it exists is just totally blind and ignorant.
That word racism has come to be used as a "bucket" to throw everything into that may be or may not be racist in origin. Sometimes you need to back up a bit and remove the polarizing stigma of only seeing things as Black or White but there may in fact be a shade of grey in there also.
Coming from a rural Canadian community with neighbours being routinely out of sight line, we were, in the fifties completely isolated from this issue of race as it was neither reported on the radio or in the print news as an item for our concern. Immigration had to that point been largely of European extraction and virtually everyone Canadian had either immigrated themselves or were only one generation removed from those who had. Immigrants were welcomed with only the stigma of being "newcomers" to the area to overcome.
When the first blacks started to arrive in rural areas, they were received with some trepidition due to their colour alone, NOT due to any preconceived ideas we had over blacks being different in ANY other ways to describe them as "inferior" for example . Those discussions had just never taken place in our lives to that point. I can attest, that in our household at least, the formative years of my gowing up were patterned after a father who returned from 4 years overseas during the second world war serving with a few men of colour in his regiment. There should have been no reason why, if prejudice was involved, that dinner table discussion wouldn't have brought that issue to the fore.
Once the "fascination" and "wariness" of these different appearing folks arriving within our community wore off, I can assure you they were accepted to the point their colour just wasn't thought of at all.
Those were the days where one in three farmers might have afforded to buy a tractor, and would often either use it or lend it to help their neighbour get the crops in and off. Wives would "pool' their preserves and contents of root cellars to offset whatever was missing from their stocks for whatever reason. The farm with the biggest kitchen or the largest range with the double boiler oven would often be the scene of a frenzied "canning" session with people from ALL ethnicities working up a sweat "together" to get the exercise done and down.
In short; everyone pitched in, in order to not just survive but to excell at getting ahead of the seasons and their drawbacks to comfortable living. I wish it were so again.
I disagree with the OP that integrated neighborhoods don't exist here. I live in a NJ neighborhood that is a mix of black and white (and Asian). I'm in a condo complex--the family on my right is Malaysian, and the family on my left is black. Both were already here when I moved in a year ago.
When I look outside in the evenings, I see black boys and white boys skateboarding together, and black girls and white girls riding their bikes. I am white and sit outside with my black neighbor smoking our cigarettes and talking about our jobs (we do similar types of work). The rental apartment complex down the street seems to be the same--I see black people and white people hanging out together outside every night in this nice weather.
The key seems to be that we are all similar economically. I work for a public transportation agency, my neighbor works for the government. Her husband is a mailman. The Malaysian guy is a chef. On the other side of the black neighbors are a young white couple. I think he's an engineer, and she is a schoolteacher. Everyone is similar in that we are all working stiffs trying to pay our bills and have a little extra for entertainment. We've all got what we need, but nobody's rich.
I think economic disparity has more to do with it than anything else. Also, at work (in NYC), there is a great number of educated black people with whom I work. Engineers, financial types, etc. Most have advanced degrees, own their own homes, and are involved in their communities. Some of them live in towns that I can't afford, but I'm pretty sure they are living on the same streets as white people, too.
I am a Jersey native currently living in NC. I worked in NYC for years. Grew up in upper middle class white suburbia. I am white, I have been with black men exclusively for 30 years. I know exactly what you are talking about as far as the US goes, but I will say this...
I have spent many years living in different military communities (we are retires military) and the racial diversity amongst these communities and vast. Poeple from every demographic join our Armed Forces and then have to spend their lives living with people they never would have encountered in their little worlds back home. Military travel to many countries, marry and bring their new families home.
To me, it is the best sort of community. Every race, many many languages AND a sense of patriotism like no where else. You should visit some of these communities and see the diversity and know your fellow US Citizens, of every race, creed and religion can and do live together peacefully...right here the Good Ole US of A (ooo-rah)
That word racism has come to be used as a "bucket" to throw everything into that may be or may not be racist in origin. Sometimes you need to back up a bit and remove the polarizing stigma of only seeing things as Black or White but there may in fact be a shade of grey in there also.
Coming from a rural Canadian community with neighbours being routinely out of sight line, we were, in the fifties completely isolated from this issue of race as it was neither reported on the radio or in the print news as an item for our concern. Immigration had to that point been largely of European extraction and virtually everyone Canadian had either immigrated themselves or were only one generation removed from those who had. Immigrants were welcomed with only the stigma of being "newcomers" to the area to overcome.
When the first blacks started to arrive in rural areas, they were received with some trepidition due to their colour alone, NOT due to any preconceived ideas we had over blacks being different in ANY other ways to describe them as "inferior" for example . Those discussions had just never taken place in our lives to that point. I can attest, that in our household at least, the formative years of my gowing up were patterned after a father who returned from 4 years overseas during the second world war serving with a few men of colour in his regiment. There should have been no reason why, if prejudice was involved, that dinner table discussion wouldn't have brought that issue to the fore.
Once the "fascination" and "wariness" of these different appearing folks arriving within our community wore off, I can assure you they were accepted to the point their colour just wasn't thought of at all.
Those were the days where one in three farmers might have afforded to buy a tractor, and would often either use it or lend it to help their neighbour get the crops in and off. Wives would "pool' their preserves and contents of root cellars to offset whatever was missing from their stocks for whatever reason. The farm with the biggest kitchen or the largest range with the double boiler oven would often be the scene of a frenzied "canning" session with people from ALL ethnicities working up a sweat "together" to get the exercise done and down.
In short; everyone pitched in, in order to not just survive but to excell at getting ahead of the seasons and their drawbacks to comfortable living. I wish it were so again.
Regarding the bold, such was the case in much of the rural US a generation earlier, in the 1920s.
However, the US also had the "Great Migration" from 1910-1940 and a second migration from 1940-1970, when African-Americans left the southern states to come up north for jobs in the factories.
The Great Migration (http://monterrey.usconsulate.gov/pd_cul_migration.html - broken link)
While educated African Americans were able to obtain good jobs and enjoy a significant measure of social mobility, the influx of migrants, who competed with native whites and European immigrants for opportunities led to an increase in racial tension in northern cities.
Interestingly, your experiences in rural Canada where there were/are few blacks, is in many respects similar to places in the US where there are fewer blacks as well. Denver, Colorado, 9% black, has just elected its second black mayor, something some cities with much larger populations of blacks have yet to do.
I agree that it surely is. It's exhibited in very many ways. The intent of my post was to show that these attitudes can change very much in a period of time. They don't however change on their own in a vacuum so to speak. I fully understand that the USA has come a long long way in race relations in the last 50 years but that fact does not in any way mean that there is still not a long way to go. Many Americans hate the thought of "Social engineering" but that it exactly what is required if the fight against racism is to be won. Social engineering like. no more projects. Social housing can be done in so many different ways and the project model is just a total failure and recipe for disaster. Equality before the law. This is a situation that must really fester in the hearts of minority Americans. All it takes is a little study of conviction rated, length of sentences, access to decent defence and other issue to see clearly that there are two different standards for justice in the USA. I don't give a crap who objects to this statement, the numbers don't lie.
The way your education system is funded is so bad it's almost as if it were designed to keep the disadvantaged in their place at the bottom of the social scale. Poor districts have poor schools, period. That is the reality of life in the USA. In Canada the education system is funded by the province and the formula is per student. If you live in the poorest neighbourhood your kids will recieve the same resources as the kids from the richest neighbourhood in the province.
Your country is still not beyond trying to disenfranchise minority folks in whatever way they can. You finally got rid of the poll tax but the powers that be are very ingenious at creating barriers to voting.
These things that I'm pointing out here are just the tip of the racism iceberg that exists in the uSA and anyone who denies that it exists is just totally blind and ignorant.
Oh, come on! You know, I don't believe all the crap I hear about the Canadian health care system having endless wait lists, etc. In fact, I have defended the Canadian health system, even though I don't think it is perfect, either. My point is, you shouldn't believe everything you hear about the United States.
First of all, you are confusing your American relatives with all 300+ million of us. We don't all think alike.
Secondly, I don't think you really know much about the funding of our ecuational system. Most big-city school districts spend more per pupil than suburban and rural districts. Schools with large numbers of low-income kids also get extra federal monies. Many states in the US now have school equalization funding laws, eliminating "rich" vs "poor" districs.
As far as disenfranchising voters, I'd like to see some stats. We "finally" got rid of poll taxes (and not every state had these) a mere 47 years ago.
I made a recent visit to Canada and it basically lived up to all my expectations. The environment is clean and quiet and it has a more laid back feel than America. The people are very social and friendly and you just don't sense the tension in the air that is characteristic of life in America.
I visited a cousin of mine in what would be considered a low income area of Toronto (which is still pretty decent by the way) and I saw something that had me rethinking everything I knew about race relations from a socioeconomic standpoint. We all the know the situation in America regarding the prevalence of "white-flight" from major urban centers to the suburbs, the corresponding decay and poverty that exist within inner cities neighborhoods occupied predominantly by minorities, and the generally segregated ethnic enclaves that exist within the big cities.
Anyways, what I saw in this Toronto neighborhood was a diversity and mixing among the different ethnic groups that you'll never see anywhere in America. This particular area is known to have a large black population and it is a magnate for immigrants from the Caribbean as well as other places (I spotted quite a few Muslim women driving around the neighborhood wearing the hijab... something that I almost never see in America). Even so there is a sizable white population interspersed throughout the area. In fact my cousin's neighbors are white and I was surprised to see their kids playing with my cousin's kids and the other black kids from the area. We were having pizza outdoors and my cousin's white neighbor came over and join us and ate and chat with us.
I found it intriguing but refreshing at the same time. I watched them carefully (without making it obvious) and I saw absolutely no tension or indication that they were uncomfortable in the other's presence or with the fact that their kids were playing together in the yard. In fact I notice this several times in Canada - how comfortably whites and blacks interacted with each other. I've never seen such relaxed attitudes between whites and blacks in America.
The idea of white-flight is virtually non-existent in Canada. You'll find whites in the inner city and low income areas as much as the suburbs and high income areas. Racism is probably present there but you'll have to search hard to find it or it's very subdued UNLIKE America where it's virtually in your face everywhere you go (browse the threads here on CD and you'll see what I'm talking about). Maybe America should take a page out of Canada's book. Like Healthcare and their stable banking system, they seem to get it right time and time again. Go Canada!
Sounds like you found the place to move to.
Well here in Amerika we have at least one party playing the race card and class warfare card making the people very manipulated and agitated.
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