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So how would it work if private owned business did not want to service blacks. Its segregating blacks, but white people are doing what they want to do based of the idea libertarianism.
No. Libertarianism does not advocate that. Some people have interpreted it to mean that, but they are wrong.
Were the Libertarians to elect a President (fat chance), he or she would still have to deal with the Constitution, the Supreme Court, and other laws of the land. All ban segregation.
Private business would still be forbidden from doing that.
Look, Libertarians are not against all laws and government. Just excessive and superfulous ones.
Their website states this:
We condemn bigotry as irrational and repugnant.Government should not deny or abridge any individual's rights based on sex, wealth, race, color, creed, age, national origin, personal habits, political preference or sexual orientation. Parents, or other guardians, have the right to raise their children according to their own standards and beliefs.
Blacks still tend to have low self-esteem. Their lot in life still hasn't gotten that much better since all this legislation was passed to "help them".
I agree with the rest of your post, but this statement about "lot in life" is not accurate. The Black poverty rate has dropped from 60% to 27% in 1968, after those laws were passed. It has remained near 25% since the 60s. The "poor black folks" everyone seems obsessed with are only a minority of the black population.
In fact, if you remove the single mothers and their 40% rate, the poverty rate would be only 8% for Black Americans.
In fact, if you remove the single mothers and their 40% rate, the poverty rate would be only 8% for Black Americans.
When you take a close look at the statistics what you find is that the income disparities between black and white Americans is practically eliminated when you factor out the single parent factor.
When you take a close look at the statistics what you find is that the income disparities between black and white Americans is practically eliminated when you factor out the single parent factor.
Yep, also crime and education gaps.
I've said this in many threads. Usually it's a conversation-ending fact for those who like to play the race card on every single topic.
I know it went on a ton but today it would hurt business, or it would be easier to know who NOT to shop at. I imagine there are place that everyone goes into and doesn't feel comfortable, I know I have been in a couple. It would be easier to know upfront I feel.
The sad part about it is people are focusing on one issue that will not be a big issue yet the ONLY party that is promoting the ending of systematic, institutional, government paid and promoting racism is being dismissed.
One in four black males are in the prison system, primarily due to the war on drugs, minority communities are ravaged by gangs and violence, all due to the war on drugs. Over night libertarians and people like Ron Paul would put an end to this, yet they are called racists. I would guess most racists (I don't know any, not my type of friends) would much rather hide their racism, keep the property laws as they are and keep promoting the jailing of a generation of minorities.
The restaurant that didn't serve blacks was one my family patronized frequently, w/o even knowing they were racist.
People are focusing on this issue b/c it is important. It makes Ron Paul sound like a racist, which he claims not to be. Hard to believe, when he says stuff like that.
You don't know for sure you don't know any racists. I certainly know some, though I doubt any of my close friends are racist. It's surprising how stuff comes out once in a while, too. My daughter and her uber-liberal granola hippie boyfriend were in the car with us one day, and I asked my DD about her friend's new boyfriend. My DD's bf piped up and said "He's Jewish! He has a big nose!" and other anti-Semitic statements. Who would have thought? I know that's not exactly racism, it's anti-Semitism, but hopefully you get the point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nighttrain55
I know I may give money to racists, but they still have to service me. In some areas, mom and pop shops maybe the only options for blacks.
What he said!
My responses below are in blue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi
So you would rather have racists do sh*t to your food and give you poor service as opposed to going to the next store? If all mom and pop shops go white only I would bet people would poor tons of money into the competition.
In some cases, there is no "next store".
Your fear is unfounded, this issue is not high on the list of priorities for libertarians, it is a intellectual thought experiment for the most part, it is only an issue because of the power elite bring it up to marginalize freedom.
That's good, but it still makes me uncomfortable.
After we end the war on drugs, reign in corporate power, stop private banks from creating money, bring all our troops home form overseas and slash the military budget, then we can start talking about the few people who may want to be outwardly racist. By then we would have such a radically different country with a lower cost of living, more peace and abundance, less "us vs them" mentality, we would easily be able to compete with the racist and drive them out of business.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moth
No. Libertarianism does not advocate that. Some people have interpreted it to mean that, but they are wrong.
Were the Libertarians to elect a President (fat chance), he or she would still have to deal with the Constitution, the Supreme Court, and other laws of the land. All ban segregation.
Private business would still be forbidden from doing that.
Look, Libertarians are not against all laws and government. Just excessive and superfulous ones.
Their website states this:
We condemn bigotry as irrational and repugnant.Government should not deny or abridge any individual's rights based on sex, wealth, race, color, creed, age, national origin, personal habits, political preference or sexual orientation. Parents, or other guardians, have the right to raise their children according to their own standards and beliefs.
You got nothing to worry about.
Your argument is a little different from some of the others'. I agree, a Libertarian president would have to compromise, but I won't vote for someone who thinks it is OK to not do business with blacks. I don't care if it's an intellectual excercise on his part.
Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
8,852 posts, read 10,458,803 times
Reputation: 6670
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom123
Do you have proof of this "intense hatred" due to race?
Are you serious... where have you been the past few years (or maybe you think the whole "birther" thang was really just a "black" invention)?!! In fact all you have to do is look no farther than many of the racist digs at Obama even here in these forums...including casual assessments of "black self-esteem", from the same folks who would be up in arms re: any mention of "poor whites" shortcomings (aka "rednecks")!
So you want Libertarianism to be taken seriously? First requirement... deal in reality, instead of "theory" (and Denial ain't just a river in Egypt)!
Your argument is a little different from some of the others'. I agree, a Libertarian president would have to compromise, but I won't vote for someone who thinks it is OK to not do business with blacks. I don't care if it's an intellectual exercise on his part.
Few libertarians think race based discrimination in business is OK. There are many things I don't think is OK that I believe should be legal.
I personally disagree with abortion but believe it is a woman's right to have one. I do not think heroin use is OK, I do think it should be legal. I personally find discrimination based on race repugnant but support a business owner's right to do so.
Now, if I was President there is no way I would have repealing any part of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 on my agenda, nor would the Paul's. There are real issues to address, the drug war, our interventions in foreign lands, reducing healthcare costs through less stringent regulations, etc.
The restaurant that didn't serve blacks was one my family patronized frequently, w/o even knowing they were racist.
People are focusing on this issue b/c it is important. It makes Ron Paul sound like a racist, which he claims not to be. Hard to believe, when he says stuff like that.
He doesn't just come out and say stuff like that, the media knows that property rights are and important piece of individual freedom, so they corner him with that question to knock him out, would you prefer he lies about it?
Why doesn't he get credit for being the ONLY candidate who is calling for doing something now that will immediately benefit minorities more than anything? Would a racist want to release millions of black males from the prison system and defund the gangs that terrorize the inner city?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana
You don't know for sure you don't know any racists. I certainly know some, though I doubt any of my close friends are racist. It's surprising how stuff comes out once in a while, too. My daughter and her uber-liberal granola hippie boyfriend were in the car with us one day, and I asked my DD about her friend's new boyfriend. My DD's bf piped up and said "He's Jewish! He has a big nose!" and other anti-Semitic statements. Who would have thought? I know that's not exactly racism, it's anti-Semitism, but hopefully you get the point.
.
I lived in Orange County CA, I ran into a ton of them, I just won't get to know them. People stereotype all the time, that is part of the problem, I would rather have people be upfront and know their true "colors". It is too easy for racism to be intermixed in our nation because all they need to do is put on a good act in public. I would rather know who they are so I can stay away and ostracize them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana
Your argument is a little different from some of the others'. I agree, a Libertarian president would have to compromise, but I won't vote for someone who thinks it is OK to not do business with blacks. I don't care if it's an intellectual excercise on his part.
He never said it was OK, he said it was repugnant. All he said is if we don't have property rights we will have dictate of the majority. The government can just as easily force segregation as it does integration, if we don't have property rights.
Are you serious... where have you been the past few years (or maybe you think the whole "birther" thang was really just a "black" invention)?!! In fact all you have to do is look no farther than many of the racist digs at Obama even here in these forums...including casual assessments of "black self-esteem", from the same folks who would be up in arms re: any mention of "poor whites" shortcomings (aka "rednecks")!
So you want Libertarianism to be taken seriously? First requirement... deal in reality, instead of "theory" (and Denial ain't just a river in Egypt)!
Don't forget the Monkey one from that GOP candidate. That said, no libertarian is going to go after the Civil Rights Act.
Are you serious... where have you been the past few years (or maybe you think the whole "birther" thang was really just a "black" invention)?!! In fact all you have to do is look no farther than many of the racist digs at Obama even here in these forums...including casual assessments of "black self-esteem", from the same folks who would be up in arms re: any mention of "poor whites" shortcomings (aka "rednecks")!
So you want Libertarianism to be taken seriously? First requirement... deal in reality, instead of "theory" (and Denial ain't just a river in Egypt)!
I once took a course on African-American literature in college. One concept mentioned frequently was that blacks could not be racist because they had no power. I somewhat disagreed with that concept but I do agree the racism of the powerless seldom has much real effect on those they discriminate against. Yes, there is racism, some of it quite ugly. I think most of it is concentrated among those who can do little harm, with the exception of those who resort to criminal acts. Your typical poor ignorant white racist does not own a business. I just cannot see many business owners turning away business for race based reasons.
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