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Your bank account balance is represented by numbers which "virtually" exist.
You can exchange those virtual numbers for currency any time you want, or you can virtually make transactions without touching money.
Isn't it great!!
Yep, and that virtual money which has to come into existence sooner or later, is how the banks, worldwide, have accumulated in excess of $1.5 quadrillion in derivatives and the U.S. is responsible for about $600 trillion of those derivatives.
The OP is right, and the solution to the problem is to issue debt-free U.S. Notes and raise the reserve requirements for these notes at 100%
I've also said in the past, that our economy is an illusion. How much of our high GDP and per capita income is due to credit expansion? How much of a standard of living would the average family have in reality, if it didn't have credit cards and loans to take out? Most of our consumer spending is debt-based consumer spending, not spending from savings. Americans have very little savings and a lot of private debt. Sooner or later, that house of cards was gonna come tumbling down, and the housing crash was the result, with more to come when more people are unable to pay off their credit card debt and other loans because they lost their jobs. Which is why the banks are in even more trouble and need bailouts from the Fed
I am no economist, hnsq, but I am a well educated American. What exactly about the GDP or GNP do you think has bearing on this conversation? You have actually made the point I am trying to make for me by saying that banks don't simply shovel physical cash into a vault, but of course, the "money" is still there. SS works the same way. There is over $2.5 trillion dollars of "money" in the system.
With all of the tea party craziness and back and forth between cons and libs, let's all make sure that that $2.5 trillion of OUR money isn't stolen while we are not looking, ok?
For starters, I don't trust anyone who starts the conversation by calling SS a ponzi scheme. The first step toward stealing someone's assets from him is convincing him the assets you're about to steal are worthless.
GDP growth is impossible without investments and without the financial markets. You are talking as if banks are evil and deceptive for not simply hoarding 100% of cash. Without the actions of the financial markets, economic growth would be impossible.
Also, the $2.5 trillion SS is backed by is unfunded liabilities on its own. Funding a program with a loan does not make that program economically sound!
GDP growth is impossible without investments and without the financial markets. You are talking as if banks are evil and deceptive for not simply hoarding 100% of cash. Without the actions of the financial markets, economic growth would be impossible.
Also, the $2.5 trillion SS is backed by is unfunded liabilities on its own. Funding a program with a loan does not make that program economically sound!
You are missing the entire point of this thread. What do you think funds your bank account? Loans, friend. Who backs those loans? Well, the FDIC -- aka the federal government -- backs $250,000 of it. You seem to believe in the monetary system as it exists. Great, you should be pleased to know then that the same entity that backs your bank account backs SS. It's there for you, so long as you don't allow some slick talking Republic politician steal it. Now, folks like unbrainwashed, who believe dollars are worthless? Well, they have some cause for concern. I recommend all of them send me their dollars immediately and head off toward some apocalyptic compound somewhere.
You are missing the entire point of this thread. What do you think funds your bank account? Loans, friend. Who backs those loans? Well, the FDIC -- aka the federal government -- backs $250,000 of it. You seem to believe in the monetary system as it exists. Great, you should be pleased to know then that the same entity that backs your bank account backs SS. It's there for you, so long as you don't allow some slick talking Republic politician steal it. Now, folks like unbrainwashed, who believe dollars are worthless? Well, they have some cause for concern. I recommend all of them send me their dollars immediately and head off toward some apocalyptic compound somewhere.
I assume an inherent risk of losing my money in exchange for a reasonable rate of return.
There is due consideration in the banking transaction, and an acceptable risk is present. The only certain way to have 0% risk of losing your money is to stuff it in your mattress.
I believe in the free market system, in spite of the harm government regulatory action has caused it.
I assume an inherent risk of losing my money in exchange for a reasonable rate of return.
There is due consideration in the banking transaction, and an acceptable risk is present. The only certain way to have 0% risk of losing your money is to stuff it in your mattress.
I believe in the free market system, in spite of the harm government regulatory action has caused it.
At this point, I don't see why we are still disagreeing. We can both agree that the SS trust fund exists, right? And we can both agree that actuary tables show that they will be able to pay out at 100 percent until 2037 and 77 percent thereafter?
At this point, I don't see why we are still disagreeing. We can both agree that the SS trust fund exists, right? And we can both agree that actuary tables show that they will be able to pay out at 100 percent until 2037 and 77 percent thereafter?
The 77% thereafter is highly speculative, based on extremely favorable forecasting of future income, as an FYI. Take it as such.
What I still have a major problem with is social security as a whole. It is a program that is proven to give (at the same level of risk) less return than well-diversified stock portfolios.
Forcing people to invest in SS instead of financial markets is forcing people to have less money upon retirement. How are you OK with that?
The 77% thereafter is highly speculative, based on extremely favorable forecasting of future income, as an FYI. Take it as such.
What I still have a major problem with is social security as a whole. It is a program that is proven to give (at the same level of risk) less return than well-diversified stock portfolios.
Forcing people to invest in SS instead of financial markets is forcing people to have less money upon retirement. How are you OK with that?
No it's not. It's a very conservative estimate based on actuary tables. It will of course be higher than that because there is over 25 years to make one of the many minor tweaks that can be made to make the program 100 percent solvent.
My deposits are FDIC insured. They may be gone, but I can get them anytime I want by just writing a check.
The FDIC works the same way the banks and insurance companies do. They only have enough money to cover a very small fraction of deposits (approximately just over 1 percent, I think) in the case of a run or other systemic problem. The remainder of the money is not available in the fund, which then requires getting they get the money elsewhere to cover the deposits (which causes its own problems - given this country has financial problems to begin with).
Last edited by FreedomThroughAnarchism; 09-15-2011 at 01:43 PM..
Does anyone under 40 with a brain actually believe Social Security will be available when they retire?
Social Security IS a ponzi scheme.
That is why I do not pay in.
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