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TC80,
She took issue with your contention that it was "not that difficult" to become a "hedge-funder." Then you ironically follow with descriptions of very challenging, time consuming tasks for the hopeful hedge-funder to complete. I think its a fair criticism and your retort was unnecessarily condescending.
Kids like us who grew up on the Park Cities had it easier than the kids in Pleasant Grove, where some had to worry about where they were sleeping that night, whether they could eat and support the family. In the Park Cities, we had great examples. We knew an engineer didn't drive a train. We had a leg up because of our parents' hard work. And it's okay to acknowledge that. We didn't choose our parents. Neither did the kids from Pleasant Grove.
Hamilton, I know I was INCREDIBLY blessed to have been born into my family- who they were (educated, lovers of travel, etc) and where they were (not only in the Park Cities, but in the United States- out of all the countries in the world!)
What I don't like seeing is a big shift in mentality in the burgeoning class war- this belief that if you were born with a leg up, we hate you. If you we're t born with a leg up, the you'll never be successful, and we hate you for stealing our opportunities. That is NOT the American dream.
I know "hedge funds for dummies" probably isn't applicable to every kid in America, but kids from Camden, AR and Durant, OK have successfully done it (without the parental support, neighborhood environment, public schools or role models you & I had), so who is this forum to call it condescending to explain how to do it? People with drive break through EVERY DAY. It hasn't stopped. Those who don't have drive don't deserve the success others have. Plain & simple.
I was thinking long & hard about the old "what would Jesus do" question last night. Jesus taught able-bodied men to fish so they could feed themselves. If Jesus were walking the earth today, I think he'd be spending that part of his time teaching technology classes (computers, digital media, digital marketing, etc) so that able bodied people could feed / support themselves. The rest of his time would be with the lowest of society, providing basic needs to those who can't do it themselves. That's what the US needs to do right now. Figure out who is permanently stuck at the bottom because they aren't able to better themselves- that's what welfare/ food stamps/ Sect 8 is for. For the rest, they need a chance to learn to fish in today's world and they need to know its expected that they become productive.
1. As an MS econ holder you should know it's pretty easy to gather inflation adjusted $ values going way back to pre-Bysintine times for large portions of the old world. The English, French, Fins, Italians, Japanese and lots of others kept meticulous records of what people were paid, what items cost, and what local money was worth relative to gold/silver/spices/sheep/wool/food/cattle/horses/beer and salt in terms of gold and silver as well not to mention other monies. Sounds a lot like the CPI or the Dallas Fed's Trimmed Mean PCE Inflation Rate does it not? Further, the English bought war horses from France, everyone bought wool from Northern Europe etc.
We know what tax rates were as well. Governments, the gentry and the Catholic Church have been fastidious record keepers for many centuries. We know what people were paid per hour and we know what things cost. Ricardo was calculating inflation rates hundreds of years ago.
2. So are you OK with someone claiming, "all time high" when the claim is patently false? Should I get away with claiming US UE is at an all time high when it clearly is not?
My only claim is that the semantics of someone claiming "all time high" when those figures cover the last 100 years is guilty of a word gaffe, nothing more. However, their argument is a lot more relevant than yours... which borders on the absurd to try to prove you "know" something. If you like, I'd suggest you write an opinion piece for the DMN or the WSJ and you can tell everyone not to worry... the income inequality gap was much greater back in medieval Europe than it is now, and you know this for a fact because of the price of gold and sheep back then was well documented. I'm sure it will be well received.
If you want to be stuck in the dark ages with your thinking and anecdotes, be my guest. The rest of us are operating in THIS century, thank you.
I was thinking long & hard about the old "what would Jesus do" question last night. Jesus taught able-bodied men to fish so they could feed themselves. If Jesus were walking the earth today, I think he'd be spending that part of his time teaching technology classes (computers, digital media, digital marketing, etc) so that able bodied people could feed / support themselves. The rest of his time would be with the lowest of society, providing basic needs to those who can't do it themselves. That's what the US needs to do right now. Figure out who is permanently stuck at the bottom because they aren't able to better themselves- that's what welfare/ food stamps/ Sect 8 is for. For the rest, they need a chance to learn to fish in today's world and they need to know its expected that they become productive.
TC80, you are always so helpful to people when it comes to advice on Dallas, but your posts on this topic have been a tough read.
You've wrapped yourself in a flag and which implies that the people disagreeing with you aren't patriotic. You have suggested people who don't agree with you should to leave the country. You have condescendingly explained that a hedge fund job is somehow just a matter of hard work (never mind connections and native talent). And now...you purport to interpret scripture so as to describe how Jesus would behave today.
Generally, I am happy with your posts, but none of the above is exactly high rhetoric.
This whole post is redirection and misinformation, from both sides. It's been clear for a while...it's going to get a whole lot worse before it starts to get any better. Makes me sad for my kids.
I will have to be calling bullarky on this one. They love to trot this one out in Biz School, and business people love to SAY they love uncertainty, but businesspeople make gazillions on uncertainty. It's actually part of the problem here.
Business people use uncertainty as a trigger to cut costs, and/or move jobs overseas. Business people use uncertainty to create disruptive products. Business people use uncertainty to take advantage of tiny blips in commodities rates and interest rates, which exacerbate market swings. Business people use this fear of uncertainty to create financial hedge instruments that bring down major financial institutions.
Business people LOVE uncertainty, they just don't want to admit it.
That is ridiculous. One exception being stock technical traders, those guys do like uncertainty.
I have very strong opinions about this but I've refrained from participating here because all that would happen is I'd get into arguments that nobody will ever win and that will go on for days or possibly weeks.
I'll just say this...it sucks out there. And it's only going to get worse.
oh come on BigD!!! Dont get all shy and withdrawn now...we need to hear your voice as well, it's simply a nice discussion among friends...
My only claim is that the semantics of someone claiming "all time high" when those figures cover the last 100 years is guilty of a word gaffe, nothing more. However, their argument is a lot more relevant than yours... which borders on the absurd to try to prove you "know" something. If you like, I'd suggest you write an opinion piece for the DMN or the WSJ and you can tell everyone not to worry... the income inequality gap was much greater back in medieval Europe than it is now, and you know this for a fact because of the price of gold and sheep back then was well documented. I'm sure it will be well received.
If you want to be stuck in the dark ages with your thinking and anecdotes, be my guest. The rest of us are operating in THIS century, thank you.
Good grief man pay attention:
1. I NEVER brought up income gaps in medieval Europe. Not once.
2. Word gaffes don't cut it for me. That Saez guy, and likely his interviewer, were clearly trying for overstate the point. It isn't a word gaffe when legions of people on the political left say the same things. Pundits say things they become a false reality. Happens on the right too.
3. I guess your point is it's fine to claim, "all time high" when saying so is demonstrably false (income gap). But it's not OK to say the same when it's almost certainly correct and backed up lots of data (price of gold)?
America hasn't always "provided upward mobility for everyone". We've always had a lower class of poor, uneducated, unmotivated citizens.
And upward mobility isn't "easy" - the word you used. The American Dream is for the bright & industrius, and I don't believe it's dead today even in a tough economic cycle. Over 600,000 small businesses have opened each year since the recession hit. That's over 2M businesses. Now, I'm sure many have closed down because new businesses are risky, but also think of all the things that have survived & grown exponerionallu since launching (Groupon & all the daily deals sites; Shop It To Me & all the flash sales sites; tons of web companies to help customers build their sites for search engine optimization; frozen yogurt franchises are popping up on every corner; Angry Birds & other apps have become huge hits; well-known bloggers are now getting paid & getting agents, etc).
There are TONS of opportunities out there; they just may not be in your area of knowledge. One must continually choose to learn how to be relevant in today's world to stay on the upward mobility track or be left behind like all the old manufacturing workers who kept thinking their jobs would move back from China, then became mad that they couldn't find replacement jobs paying $75-100k+ for someone who had no college degree and obsolete auto knowledge,
and then became part of the underclass after not finding work for years. The system isnt entirely broken, but applying yearsrday's rules to today's world isn't going to work. I am not Obama's biggest fan, but I like that is pushing for education to be a part of the jobs bill. We have a 20th century working population in a 21st century world. People, even those just 5-10 years out of high school or college NEED new skills. The world is moving that quickly now and it's not going to slow down.
I think you might want to go back and re read my post. I never said upward mobility is "easy", I described it as the ease with which one can move from a lower income class to a higher income class THROUGH HARD WORK, WISE EDUCATIONAL AND CAREER CHOICES. Sorry for the all caps but I just wanted to highlight that part which you obviously missed.
I'm certainly not arguing for everyone to be ENTITLED to prosperity, hence I pointed out that hard work and wise choices in life are needed, not just expecting a $75K job, nice house and flashy car to be handed to them just because. I am saying that this pathway of hard work and good choices is increasingly coming up empty for many young people today, and America is slowly but surely morphing into one of those old aristocratic who you know societies that we tried so hard to differ from in 1776. JMHO.
TC80, you are always so helpful to people when it comes to advice on Dallas, but your posts on this topic have been a tough read.
You've wrapped yourself in a flag and which implies that the people disagreeing with you aren't patriotic. You have suggested people who don't agree with you should to leave the country. You have condescendingly explained that a hedge fund job is somehow just a matter of hard work (never mind connections and native talent). And now...you purport to interpret scripture so as to describe how Jesus would behave today.
Generally, I am happy with your posts, but none of the above is exactly high rhetoric.
This whole post is redirection and misinformation, from both sides. It's been clear for a while...it's going to get a whole lot worse before it starts to get any better. Makes me sad for my kids.
I am sad, too. Sad that people are trying to destroy the foundations this country was built upon. Sad that hundreds of millions of Americans moved here to get away from the exact things a large contingency is trying to put into place (nanny state, implementing socialist/marxist ideals, move away from individualism and true freedom). Sad that the average American isn't intelligent enough (doesn't know history and/or doesn't follow current events) to see their grand plans won't work- we are not Sweeden or Lichtenstein. We're Greece. We are on a path to being broke, being China's b***h, and social anarchy. It is indeed a sad state. Forgive me for being so passionate.
[TurtleCreek80 tucks head into her shell and steps away from the keyboard.]
Hamilton, I know I was INCREDIBLY blessed to have been born into my family- who they were (educated, lovers of travel, etc) and where they were (not only in the Park Cities, but in the United States- out of all the countries in the world!)
What I don't like seeing is a big shift in mentality in the burgeoning class war- this belief that if you were born with a leg up, we hate you. If you we're t born with a leg up, the you'll never be successful, and we hate you for stealing our opportunities. That is NOT the American dream.
I know "hedge funds for dummies" probably isn't applicable to every kid in America, but kids from Camden, AR and Durant, OK have successfully done it (without the parental support, neighborhood environment, public schools or role models you & I had), so who is this forum to call it condescending to explain how to do it? People with drive break through EVERY DAY. It hasn't stopped. Those who don't have drive don't deserve the success others have. Plain & simple.
I was thinking long & hard about the old "what would Jesus do" question last night. Jesus taught able-bodied men to fish so they could feed themselves. If Jesus were walking the earth today, I think he'd be spending that part of his time teaching technology classes (computers, digital media, digital marketing, etc) so that able bodied people could feed / support themselves. The rest of his time would be with the lowest of society, providing basic needs to those who can't do it themselves. That's what the US needs to do right now. Figure out who is permanently stuck at the bottom because they aren't able to better themselves- that's what welfare/ food stamps/ Sect 8 is for. For the rest, they need a chance to learn to fish in today's world and they need to know its expected that they become productive.
There may very well be a class war with that mentality in mind, but it's certainly not mine. All I'm saying is that the American Dream allowed for both the filthy rich to prosper, but also let the little guy achieve his middle class objectives. That is something that doesnt happen in most places around the world, usually it's the filthy rich on one hand, and grinding poverty for everyone else. No middle class. And this middle class is being slowly but surely squeezed out of existence in this country, with the outsourcing of jobs left and right, the flooding of chinese imports. Everything is being increasingly geared against the middle class. Simply saying "just retool and learn new skills" is the equivalent of running in place. It's a temporary fix to the problem nothing else. For example. Right now the "booming" industry is now healthcare. So everyone rushes into the healthcare industry. What do you think happens eventually? The laws of demand and supply come into play, wages eventually crash, and we're back to square one. A bunch of people working for low wages, unable to get ahead in life.
TC80, you are always so helpful to people when it comes to advice on Dallas, but your posts on this topic have been a tough read.
You've wrapped yourself in a flag and which implies that the people disagreeing with you aren't patriotic. You have suggested people who don't agree with you should to leave the country. You have condescendingly explained that a hedge fund job is somehow just a matter of hard work (never mind connections and native talent). And now...you purport to interpret scripture so as to describe how Jesus would behave today.
Generally, I am happy with your posts, but none of the above is exactly high rhetoric.
This whole post is redirection and misinformation, from both sides. It's been clear for a while...it's going to get a whole lot worse before it starts to get any better. Makes me sad for my kids.
Not one of her better days, I'll agree. And I say this as a general admirer of her contributions.
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