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Old 10-29-2011, 03:38 PM
 
17,291 posts, read 29,418,544 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Kim View Post
Detroit. Somalia. Same difference.
Detroit's failings shows you what happens when a city reliant on a certain private industry can devolve into once the free market determines that labor is cheaper elsewhere.

Detroit's heydey was when there was a strong union in place that provided livable wages to the men and women that worked there.

Detroit auto industry also fell under the crushing weight of private healthcare costs, that keep American industries and manufacturing NON COMPETITIVE.
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Old 10-29-2011, 03:38 PM
 
1,568 posts, read 1,552,674 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomstudent View Post
Foreign born workers make up 20% of the population and as I said these Indian and Arab communities already exist. Once more nationalist parties in Switzerland cannot muster 30% of the vote. On top of that Switzerland has a ton of liberal policies such as socialized health care.
There is no tribalism in Switzerland like there is in the US.
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Old 10-29-2011, 03:39 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,759,378 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Kim View Post
Switzerland is not disintegrating into tribalism like the US is.
I don't have any numbers, but I suppose Switzerland actually has more than its fair share of bureaucrats - because it is almost like four countries in one. That probably requires more parallel structures.

Anyway, Switzerland is so un-American, we would need to look at a big country with at least 50m people and one official language.
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Old 10-29-2011, 03:39 PM
 
Location: Land of debt and Corruption
7,545 posts, read 8,331,463 times
Reputation: 2889
Quote:
Originally Posted by fibonacci View Post
Ask Mogadishu. They literally have no government or taxes. Anti-tax people should move there.
I am a conservative and know many conservatives. Nobody I know of is "anti-tax". We are anti-wasteful spending and don't believe it's the government's responsibility to provide everything for everyone. Not only is that idiotic, it's impossible to accomplish. Government should be limited, small, not intrusive. That does not = No government or taxes.

Let me give you an analogy to help you comprehend. Say you have a family member who is down on their luck and in need of some money. You give them some cash to help out and they blow it on pot and booze instead of on college tuition, food, and rent. You help them out again and again, they blow it on booze. Do you then decide that it is a good idea to give them MORE money in the hopes that they will spend it constructively and responsibly? Or, do you pay for only their essentials (ie., food, tuition, rent) and limit any extras they want until they prove they can be responsible?
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Old 10-29-2011, 03:43 PM
 
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Mogadishu has laws. They are enforced by a handful of warlords.
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Old 10-29-2011, 03:44 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,759,378 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whatyousay View Post
I am a conservative and know many conservatives. Nobody I know of is "anti-tax". We are anti-wasteful spending and don't believe it's the government's responsibility to provide everything for everyone. Not only is that idiotic, it's impossible to accomplish. Government should be limited, small, not intrusive. That does not = No government or taxes.
Most of the expenses are just in reaction to existing problems, for instance to fight poverty, racism, etc.
I don't think governments decide to spend money on something just for fun, they wouldn't even know what to spend it on as they lack imagination and proactive thinking.
So in my opinion the question is, should governments just watch problems and hope they will solve themselves?
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Old 10-29-2011, 03:48 PM
 
29,939 posts, read 39,480,300 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter_Sucks View Post
So, nowhere. There is no libertarian/conservative government success story because conservatism only looks good on paper.

As a liberal Democrat, I would love if the USA was more like Switzerland and New Zealand.
Which states are you going to choose? You're wanting a apples to orange comparison. I mean, unless you want to get rid of the Federal Government.
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Old 10-29-2011, 03:49 PM
 
Location: Land of debt and Corruption
7,545 posts, read 8,331,463 times
Reputation: 2889
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Most of the expenses are just in reaction to existing problems, for instance to fight poverty, racism, etc.
I don't think governments decide to spend money on something just for fun, they wouldn't even know what to spend it on as they lack imagination and proactive thinking.
So in my opinion the question is, should governments just watch problems and hope they will solve themselves?
But look at all of the money we have thrown at "fighting poverty". Has it helped? Has our poverty rate decreased or increased (the past 3 years notwithstanding). Throwing money at a problem is not working. We have upp'ed the amount we throw at education and our test scores are plummeting. Once again, throwing money at a problem doesn't solve said problem. We need to evaluate new ways of tackling societal problems instead of just saying we need to pay more and more. Paying more has not improved a thing.
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Old 10-29-2011, 03:50 PM
 
1,568 posts, read 1,552,674 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475 View Post
Which states are you going to choose? You're wanting a apples to orange comparison. I mean, unless you want to get rid of the Federal Government.
And blue states are losing their populations to red states.
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Old 10-29-2011, 03:52 PM
 
29,939 posts, read 39,480,300 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomstudent View Post
Foreign born workers make up 20% of the population and as I said these Indian and Arab communities already exist. Once more nationalist parties in Switzerland cannot muster 30% of the vote. On top of that Switzerland has a ton of liberal policies such as socialized health care. Switzerland is not a tea party paradise.
It's not a liberal paradise either. They worship their banks and even allow them to bring in capital from all over the world making them have one of the highest wealth disparities among socialist states, even higher than the U.S.

Quote:
wealth owned
by top 10%

Switzerland 71.3%

United States 69.8%
Who Rules America: Wealth, Income, and Power
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