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Old 01-14-2012, 09:32 AM
 
Location: Murfreesboro (nearer Smyrna), TN
694 posts, read 745,370 times
Reputation: 346

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cletus Awreetus-Awrightus View Post
Taxation isn't theft. It is what you pay, involuntarily, for services rendered by government.

Living in this country, you use government services whether you like it or not.
This holds true only if it is something the Government has to do because they are the only ones who have the resources. The liberals seem to think the Government has obligations to do "everything" for everyone. If I take from you to build something for your use, it isn't stealing. If I take from you to give to someone else simply because they have less than you - THAT is stealing!

Charles Sands
37129
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Old 01-15-2012, 05:39 AM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,884,808 times
Reputation: 11259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
Who hasn't?

Because Swift was a very talented writer, knew how to use satire to great effect, and was writing about a genuine tragedy.

Admittedly, it would be unfair to demand that Dr. Whatshisname have the same command of English prose as one of the great British novelists, so peace be upon that. But as for satire, his piece doesn't possess any - well, any of the voluntary sort, that is. And I take it reasonable people would agree that the Irish famines were rather worse transgressions than the concept of income tax.

If you compare this tripe to Swift's writing, I can't help but doubt you understand what makes "A Modest Proposal" a classic.
Just confess you are really for legalized theft.

If everyone respected the principle of self-ownership there would be no rapes.

Last edited by whogo; 01-15-2012 at 06:12 AM..
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Old 01-15-2012, 09:22 AM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
2,553 posts, read 2,435,555 times
Reputation: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
Dr. Walter Williams explains the immorality of the liberal position:

"Once one accepts the principle of self-ownership, what's moral and immoral becomes self-evident. Murder is immoral because it violates private property. Rape and theft are also immoral -- they also violate private property. Here's an important question: Would rape become morally acceptable if Congress passed a law legalizing it? You say: "What's wrong with you, Williams? Rape is immoral plain and simple, no matter what Congress says or does!" If you take that position, isn't it just as immoral when Congress legalizes the taking of one person's earnings to give to another? Surely if a private person took money from one person and gave it to another, we'd deem it theft and, as such, immoral. Does the same act become moral when Congress takes people's money to give to farmers, airline companies or an impoverished family? No, it's still theft, but with an important difference: It's legal, and participants aren't jailed."
All of the money the government receives in taxes gets redistributed whether it be to a government employee/contractor or a farmer it's subsidizing. It's money being spent on what Congress deems necessary for the good of the country. If the farmer wasn't subsidized we'd have a problem finding people who were willing to be farmers....it would cause problems with our food supply and the price we pay for food. Bail outs that are for businesses that are too big to fail are because the result of failure would be much worse fiancially (among other things as well) than the cost of the bail out.

When you look at the big picture, a person's earnings (that get taxed) may rely on some of the programs the government subsidizes or at the very least their "net" earnings would be less if those programs didn't exist. How often have you been robbed or burglarized? Certainly if aid was not provided to the poor, crime would be much higher. Even if you were lucky enough to not be a frequent victim of that crime, you'd be paying more in taxes to cover the increased cost that would be necessary for law enforcement.
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Old 01-15-2012, 09:33 AM
 
46,948 posts, read 25,979,166 times
Reputation: 29441
Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
Just confess you are really for legalized theft.
What, you're giving up on the Swift comparison and turning to strawman arguments already?

Quote:
If everyone respected the principle of self-ownership there would be no rapes.
I thought you didn't want to discuss rape in the first place.
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Old 01-15-2012, 09:39 AM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,884,808 times
Reputation: 11259
Subsidizing an item simply transfers economic activities into areas where it is less efficient. Subsidizing reduces wealth. People with wealth will always be able to find food available.

Nearly a half century of the Great Society has done nothing to reduce the poverty rate, Subsidizing poverty just gets you more of it as it delays people going to work and acquiring real skills that can get them out of poverty.

The drug war, another government violation of the right to self-ownership, is responsible for much of our present crime.
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Old 01-15-2012, 09:44 AM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,884,808 times
Reputation: 11259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
What, you're giving up on the Swift comparison and turning to strawman arguments already?

I thought you didn't want to discuss rape in the first place.
The point is Swift's comparison of legalizing cannibalizing children in order to make a political point is in the same vein as William's rape versus theft comparison.

You simply wish to debate how the message was conveyed and not the message. The message is theft is immoral even if it is legal.

The fact is millions are suffering in prisons and in poverty thanks to our government's failure to respect the principle of self-ownership.
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Old 01-15-2012, 12:40 PM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,884,808 times
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As usual this county's failure to follow the principle of self-ownership hurts some groups more than others.

Leonard Pitts:

Quote:
In June of 2010, I wrote in this space about a book, The New Jim Crow, by Michelle Alexander, which I called a “troubling and profoundly necessary†work. Alexander promulgated an explosive argument. Namely, that the so-called “War on Drugs†amounts to a war on African-American men and, more to the point, to a racial caste system nearly as restrictive, oppressive and omnipresent as Jim Crow itself.

This because, although white Americans are far and away the nation’s biggest dealers and users of illegal drugs, African Americans are far and away the ones most likely to be jailed for drug crimes. And when they are set “free†after doing their time, black men enter a legal purgatory where the right to vote, work, go to school or rent an apartment can be legally denied. It’s as if George Wallace were still standing in the schoolhouse door.

Read more here: The new Jim Crow alive and thriving - Leonard Pitts Jr. - MiamiHerald.com
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Old 01-15-2012, 12:52 PM
 
Location: The Nanny State of MD
1,438 posts, read 1,145,889 times
Reputation: 510
Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
Dr. Walter Williams explains the immorality of the liberal position:

"Once one accepts the principle of self-ownership, what's moral and immoral becomes self-evident. Murder is immoral because it violates private property. Rape and theft are also immoral -- they also violate private property. Here's an important question: Would rape become morally acceptable if Congress passed a law legalizing it? You say: "What's wrong with you, Williams? Rape is immoral plain and simple, no matter what Congress says or does!" If you take that position, isn't it just as immoral when Congress legalizes the taking of one person's earnings to give to another? Surely if a private person took money from one person and gave it to another, we'd deem it theft and, as such, immoral. Does the same act become moral when Congress takes people's money to give to farmers, airline companies or an impoverished family? No, it's still theft, but with an important difference: It's legal, and participants aren't jailed."
Makes perfect, logical sense!
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Old 08-05-2012, 12:18 PM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,884,808 times
Reputation: 11259
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiamiRob View Post
Strawman's arguement since a rape "victim" or a murder "victim" or a theft "victim" has no control over those circumstances. However one does have control as to whether or not they want to give their "earnings" to the Government though.
They do? I believe that is what Denzel Washington thought.

"Another way of verbally masking elite preemption of other people's decisions is to use the word 'ask'--as in 'We are just asking everyone to pay their fair share.' But of course governments do not ask, they tell. The Internal Revenue Service does not 'ask' for contributions. It takes." -- Thomas Sowell

Last edited by whogo; 08-05-2012 at 12:31 PM..
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Old 08-05-2012, 12:24 PM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,884,808 times
Reputation: 11259
Quote:
Originally Posted by personwhoisaperson View Post
Makes perfect, logical sense!
Of course it does. Rape and theft are both immoral.
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