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Old 01-11-2012, 04:22 AM
 
29,407 posts, read 22,005,733 times
Reputation: 5455

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Now it's gimme gimme gimme. Gotta have the newest and best thing out there. Ipad, I want it. Fancy smancy puter I want it. New extravagant home to impress my friends I want it. Who pays for it?? Who cares.............

"Frugality used to be a central middle-class theme. What happened to it? We now read the stories of middle-class families in free fall because they lost a job and had no savings. Back in the mists of time, there was a rule about setting aside six months of salary to cover a possible job loss. Not only did the middle class stop saving, but it famously borrowed to maintain extravagant living beyond what its stagnating salaries could support.

Middle-class Americans used to throw "mortgage burning parties," when, after 30 years, they finally paid off their home loans. They understood as long as they had a mortgage, they were not full homeowners.

But come the housing bubble of the last decade, middle-class people no longer viewed their rising home prices as mere whipped cream on a prudent savings plan. They saw a higher value as the main course to be quickly devoured by borrowing against it. Now Americans' equity in their homes (the home's value minus mortgage) is half what it was in 2006.



Many middle-class parents of the '50s and '60s well remembered the privations of the Great Depression. Thus, they raised their children to be survivors in an uncertain world, not as princes and princesses who can do no wrong. They understood the importance of education and manners. They regarded teachers as authorities to be respected. "

Middle Class Aided Its Own Decline - Rasmussen Reports™
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Old 01-11-2012, 04:52 AM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
3,565 posts, read 7,980,138 times
Reputation: 2605
This nuevo middle-class that rose quite visibly in the 1980s yuppie era is (or was?) certainly spoiled.

I mean "nuevo middle-class" as in the semi-educated, semi-professional types, modern college grads. They've basically replaced the former- (1970s and prior) working-class masses and commoner as the new masses and commoner - all the while with outsourcing and globalization and the fall of the industrial economy, that former working-class has really been left behind and forgotten and it's been this way for a while now but if you don't go or simply aren't college material, you're screwed. Now, it turns out, the new-economy is (has fallen?) falling out and college grads are screwed now too. You're only safe if you have a master's degree and that basically puts you in the classic middle-class (what we now call upper-middle). This irresponsible behavior and materialism you speak of should be expected when the masses try to attach themselves to the true middle-class. These folks are simply the new working-class masses and I don't think a college education correlates with the maturity, responsibility, "frugality", prestige and class that it once did. This is what happens when folks who made it through school but aren't the most well-rounded people are given big salaries and have the yuppie, keepin'-up-with-the-joneses mentality. Look at the "new money" stereotypes and look at these fools trying to be "new money". The real "inequality" in this country has been between this new "middle class" and the working class. A good dose of humility has been in store for a long time.
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Old 01-11-2012, 05:25 AM
 
5,938 posts, read 4,699,219 times
Reputation: 4631
@ the OP: Definitely, certainly, absolutely yes!

Part of the problem today (mind you, I'm in my early 30s, just for perspective), is that we've dug ourselves our own grave financially. Go back a couple decades... who used to live in 2500+ sq foot houses with brand spanking new marble countertops? Who used to have 2+ new cars? Who used to have tons of super-expensive gadgets (computers, iPads), the extra monthly fee services (cable TV, cell phones), and so on and so on.

When I was growing up (in the 80s), the people that I knew that had brand new cars (just for example) were either single or married with no kids... or they were a bit older where they were far enough along in their career where buying a new car was comfortably affordable.

I bought my first new car at 27. I bought my second (nearly new) car at 31. I paid for cable TV when I was in college (and for a few years after that). I was paying for a cell phone by 22. I upgrade my PCs every 2-3 years. These were frivolous expenditures that I CHOSE to do. While I'm paid very well, due to the other monthly fees that I'm paying, at times, things could feel tight.

I guess my point is that I think many people made the conscious decision to overextend themselves. Many people can gripe all they want about how the world is screwing them over, but most people chose to spend this money. They could, you know... just do without the iPads, the expensive cell phones and cell plans and maybe buy a used economical car instead of the 40k+ 4-door sedan.
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Old 01-11-2012, 06:11 AM
 
31,683 posts, read 41,045,989 times
Reputation: 14434
Quote:
Originally Posted by dspguy View Post
@ the OP: Definitely, certainly, absolutely yes!

Part of the problem today (mind you, I'm in my early 30s, just for perspective), is that we've dug ourselves our own grave financially. Go back a couple decades... who used to live in 2500+ sq foot houses with brand spanking new marble countertops? Who used to have 2+ new cars? Who used to have tons of super-expensive gadgets (computers, iPads), the extra monthly fee services (cable TV, cell phones), and so on and so on.

When I was growing up (in the 80s), the people that I knew that had brand new cars (just for example) were either single or married with no kids... or they were a bit older where they were far enough along in their career where buying a new car was comfortably affordable.

I bought my first new car at 27. I bought my second (nearly new) car at 31. I paid for cable TV when I was in college (and for a few years after that). I was paying for a cell phone by 22. I upgrade my PCs every 2-3 years. These were frivolous expenditures that I CHOSE to do. While I'm paid very well, due to the other monthly fees that I'm paying, at times, things could feel tight.

I guess my point is that I think many people made the conscious decision to overextend themselves. Many people can gripe all they want about how the world is screwing them over, but most people chose to spend this money. They could, you know... just do without the iPads, the expensive cell phones and cell plans and maybe buy a used economical car instead of the 40k+ 4-door sedan.
Technology and marketing merged to bring us more products to spend our money on and more ways to convince us to do it. People can't afford to be in the mainstream of consumption and in the main stream of income at the same time any more.
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Old 01-11-2012, 06:21 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,783,759 times
Reputation: 24863
The great defeat of the formerly prosperous middle class is the way they have let their upper class enemy get them to blame themselves. The middle class did not impoverish itself it is the victim of a very carefully planned assault on their wealth. What do you thing the Housing mortgage boom and bust was all about. Why else approve tax cuts on the wealthiest? A few made billions while the victims went broke. The prosperous middle class did not suicide it was killed.
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Old 01-11-2012, 06:34 AM
 
4,255 posts, read 3,479,963 times
Reputation: 992
"The upper class enemy" thats some funny stuff right there. Round here the upper middle class is doing just fine. They got the education they needed from the media instead of having to live it out. Sure some used their homes as an ATM. They gambled and lost. The smart ones are doing just fine.
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Old 01-11-2012, 06:40 AM
 
47,525 posts, read 69,707,823 times
Reputation: 22474
Don't forget - we didn't used to have cradle to grave socialism, we didn't have more babies born to welfare programs like Medicaid than to working paying parents. We didn't used to have open borders where anyone could waltz on in and expect the government to cater to their every whim. Also we didn't used to have nation-building pours all our money into failed nations and regimes. The American middle class has now been burdened with an unbearable debt.

Most of us pay far more in taxes than we pay buying toys.
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Old 01-11-2012, 06:44 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,783,759 times
Reputation: 24863
I guess you are leaving out the workers that made middle class incomes. Why not? Industrial workers should never have had that much money anyway.

The real enemy of a prosperous middle class has always been the upper classes living off inherited wealth just as the enemy of small business has always been big business trying to eliminate competition.

The biggest and most pernicious lie perpetrated by the very rich and powerful is that the decline of both the working and middle class has been their own fault when it has been the result of enemy action. Shipping jobs offshore and increasing taxes on the middle have not been accidents. Placing the blame on the victims has not been an accident either.
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Old 01-11-2012, 06:54 AM
 
4,255 posts, read 3,479,963 times
Reputation: 992
When did taxes increase on the middle class? My taxes were lowered with the Bush/Obama tax cuts , just like everyone elses.
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Old 01-11-2012, 07:11 AM
 
3,244 posts, read 7,448,554 times
Reputation: 1604
Quote:
Originally Posted by KUchief25 View Post
Now it's gimme gimme gimme. Gotta have the newest and best thing out there. Ipad, I want it. Fancy smancy puter I want it. New extravagant home to impress my friends I want it. Who pays for it?? Who cares.............

"Frugality used to be a central middle-class theme. What happened to it? We now read the stories of middle-class families in free fall because they lost a job and had no savings. Back in the mists of time, there was a rule about setting aside six months of salary to cover a possible job loss. Not only did the middle class stop saving, but it famously borrowed to maintain extravagant living beyond what its stagnating salaries could support.

Middle-class Americans used to throw "mortgage burning parties," when, after 30 years, they finally paid off their home loans. They understood as long as they had a mortgage, they were not full homeowners.

But come the housing bubble of the last decade, middle-class people no longer viewed their rising home prices as mere whipped cream on a prudent savings plan. They saw a higher value as the main course to be quickly devoured by borrowing against it. Now Americans' equity in their homes (the home's value minus mortgage) is half what it was in 2006.



Many middle-class parents of the '50s and '60s well remembered the privations of the Great Depression. Thus, they raised their children to be survivors in an uncertain world, not as princes and princesses who can do no wrong. They understood the importance of education and manners. They regarded teachers as authorities to be respected. "

Middle Class Aided Its Own Decline - Rasmussen Reports™
------------------------------------------------------------------

There also is the THINKER vs SITCOM syndrome.

SITCOM = Single Income, Two Children, Oppressive Mortgage

THINKER = Two High Income, No Kids, Early Retirement.

The consumerism by the middle class may help businesses, but it destroys their own financial security. I don't have an Iphone, or an Ipad, or a PSP (or whatever those games are). The middle class has destroyed itself due to the beliefs of what is advertised on TV.
People with a lot of financial security tend to have it because they don't spend it. If people would learn to live within their means... (And six months savings in case of a job loss is not even close to what I would consider adequate).
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