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Is one American 5 year old worth 1000 Taliban 5 year olds? In the grand scheme of life and on one measly rock surrounded by millions of other planets you're really not that special. Life evolve and march on LONG after you and everyone else has killed themselves off including the Taliban.. If there is a god he probably cares as much about "Americans" as he does about anyone else on this planet. [MOD CUT]
I am not concerned about life on earth after we're gone.
As of now, yes, an American 5 year old is worth 1,000 Taliban 5 year old lives.
While I agree pissing on a some dead corpses is hardly the worst we have to worry about in a time of war, even comparing our behavior to Somali and Taliban fighters is ridiculous. So just as long as we behave just slightly better than they do we are somehow better than they are? Just as long as we urinate on their corpses but don't drag them through the streets and behead them we are are slightly better than they are? Again grow up! American used to be exceptional because of our belief in justice, humanity, liberty, etc. and while we haven't always acted in those interests it's ok nowadays to throw in the towel and say oh well atleast we aren't beheading our enemy and burning their dead bodies in the streets. REALLY? Have we sunk so low as a population that we don't have an ounce of respectable ideology left in us? And we wonder why our country is in the dishonorable mess and shambles it is in. Look around you, look at some of these posts, look at the talking heads in media. I'm glad we atleast have a leadership as much as I despise them that have come out publicly and criticized this behavior. Maybe there is some hope left.
Are you so blind as to think this is the first time a US soldier ever did anythign of this kind in a combat environment? You are the one who needs to grow up and stop squealing like a madman all the time. Most of your nonsense isn't even on topic. The leadership you speak of despise the men and women who wear the uniform.
Our guys were alive the enemy was dead. In war that is a victory
I know, but you deflected from my actual question. "What I'm really telling people is the greatest risk we can accept is to lose the support of the people here," Gen. Stanley McChrystal told CBS's "60 Minutes" in an interview aired Sunday night.
"If the people are against us, we cannot be successful. If the people view us as occupiers and the enemy, we can't be successful and our casualties will go up dramatically."
Unfortunately, the actions of these soldiers will increase the threat and animosity of the locals, not win over their hearts and minds - therefore, putting more American lives at risk. In war, you are supposed to minimize risk, not exacerbate it. Therefore, it is hard to accept that people who usher accolades for this sort of action are serious about preserving lives, especially American ones on the front line.
You may have won that battle, but a more intelligent person would recognize that you're making your long-term mission harder for yourself. This is not an all-out war, and victory here cannot be feasibly achieved by killing every single living thing between Iran and Pakistan. We're trying to partner with the Afghan people in rooting out terrorists and establishing a more stable ecosystem aligned with Western interests (already a tall order, if not impossible); therefore, they are not ALL the "enemy." When actions like this become public (and they inevitably do), then those Afghans from highest to lowest levels of authority whose partnership we would really benefit from become opposed to US forces and make their lives harder - no cooperation, more opposition, etc. The end result is that US forces have a worse time achieving their objectives and are there much longer against much greater odd, with much higher numbers of casualties. The John Wayne approach to foreign policy and conflict is not always the best one.
Get it now? No, you probably don't. And neither does that knuckle-dragging Geller.
The Afghan people who support our side do not care if we pissed on dead bodies, the only ones that do are our enemies anyway. Do you understand what the Taliban did to the Afghan people is much worse then pissing on a dead body. We have soldiers on the ground and they won this battle. War is not pretty . If your going to fight a battle the idea is to kill the other side before they kill you.
I know, but you deflected from my actual question. "What I'm really telling people is the greatest risk we can accept is to lose the support of the people here," Gen. Stanley McChrystal told CBS's "60 Minutes" in an interview aired Sunday night.
"If the people are against us, we cannot be successful. If the people view us as occupiers and the enemy, we can't be successful and our casualties will go up dramatically."
Unfortunately, the actions of these soldiers will increase the threat and animosity of the locals, not win over their hearts and minds - therefore, putting more American lives at risk. In war, you are supposed to minimize risk, not exacerbate it. Therefore, it is hard to accept that people who usher accolades for this sort of action are serious about preserving lives, especially American ones on the front line.
The Afghan people whose support we need do not care how we kill the taliban.We are not going to win the hearts of the taliban they hate us already. So when you have them (taliban) by their testicles , their hearts and minds will soon follow
The Afghan people who support our side do not care if we pissed on dead bodies, the only ones that do are our enemies anyway.
Yeah. Who told you that, the tooth fairy?
Afghans are not culturally similar to ourselves in the first place; they have much more in common culturally with the Taliban. Actions perceived as desecrating Muslim remains, cultures, or customs will absolutely be noticed - OF COURSE they will care. It's a tenuous partnership to begin with.
And every act like this is two more IEDs, one of which will perhaps kill one or three more Americans.
Every act like this is one more Afghan who turns against the US and joins the enemy.
Every act like this is one more Afghan in the field who stops giving inside info to US personnel, which means perhaps one more terrorist who will get away to strike another day. How do you think intelligence in the field is gathered? For all our technology, you need people on the ground.
Every act like this is one more international ally who starts thinking twice about publicly supporting the USA in these kinds of missions, especially when they have other influences and allies to diplomatically balance in their relationships.
So even from a purely utilitarian standpoint, doing things like this is actually hurting the mission, not helping it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wjtwet
Do you understand what the Taliban did to the Afghan people is much worse then pissing on a dead body. We have soldiers on the ground and they won this battle. War is not pretty . If your going to fight a battle the idea is to kill the other side before they kill you.
That's just the thing - you think "me good, you bad, me KILL - OOGA OOGA."
In reality, it's more complicated than that and requires some strategic tact. We absolutely need to kill the bad guys, but we also need cooperation with other people there who are already on the fence about liking us in the first place and who have more commonalities with the bad guys than with us - after all, they didn't exactly invite us over. That's why this is a delicate operation and requires leadership by people with brains, not just machismo.
This one act alone isn't enough to make a difference. But keep doing this a hundred times and escalate it further, and it will become a real problem for the US. That's why they have to demonstrate that they are going to nip it in the bud.
If you are urinating on the enemies body you have won that battle.
I imagine that in a battle with Adrenalin running for you survive or they survive that things might happen due to the rush that you survived that might not be acceptable at formal cocktail parties
Yes, the act of urinating indicates that they won that battle but lost the principles that the war was about.
The Adrenalin was running so high in these soldiers that they had to patiently wait for the camera to pee in unison and on cue.
A lot of Marines and soldiers on the front lines are nothing but gangsters with a rifle. Sad but very true nowdays considering the recruiting standards of the US military. The more professional and highly trained SOF, SEALs, Delta etc. would never be caught doing crap like this least of all being caught videotaping it like a college fraternity.
You have to be kidding me! Military recruiting standards are the HIGHEST they have ever been. Back in the days I was in there, they'd take anybody that walked or crawled into a recruiting office. I knew of enlistees that went into the recruiter DRUNK and signed up and they would just be told "sober up for a few days until you get through AFES processing. People went in without high school diplomas. Criminals were welcome and in fact many courts used to tell criminals "military or jail, your choice". Today, you must score at LEAST a 50 or better on the ASVAB to even be considered. And you must have a high school diploma. You can only get in with a GED if you score 75 or better which is hard to do for many people. And the Marines are more selective than any branch except the Air Force. That is why they are called "the few and the proud". They don't just take anybody. For every 10 people that walk into a USMC recruiter, probably only 1 gets in.
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