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Provided it is funded locally and NOT federally, I have no problem with building light rail even though I would never use it. What I "rail" against is with federal funding, as I cannot make the choice to opt out. With local funding, I can move to another region or state if I did not agree with it and no longer wish to fund it.
Last edited by sacredgrooves; 02-05-2012 at 11:17 AM..
For one, Buses are really noisy because they rely on internal combustion engines (even the propane ones) which makes them vibrate like crazy. They have a very harsh, jolting ride. For the passenger, riding on the bus is a very unpleasant, jaw-rattling experience. Do you think people would be willing to give up their cars to ride on a loud harsh-riding bus? I don't think so. Not many will do that.
The US is a large country. We are not comparable to countries in Europe or to countries like Japan and Taiwan. Our population density pales in comparison to that in those countries.
It's 2,500 miles from New York to LA, 800 miles from New York to Chicago, 1,000 miles from LA to Seattle. HSR costs tens of millions of dollars to build per mile and, when you're talking about trips of over 500 miles, flying is much faster - even when you include transit time to/from the airport and arriving at the airport an hour or two before your flight.
The only place where HSR is really feasible in the US is in the Boston-Washington corridor. That's the only corridor where population density is high enough and distances between cities are short enough for it to work.
The US is a large country. We are not comparable to countries in Europe or to countries like Japan and Taiwan. Our population density pales in comparison to that in those countries.
It's 2,500 miles from New York to LA, 800 miles from New York to Chicago, 1,000 miles from LA to Seattle. HSR costs tens of millions of dollars to build per mile and, when you're talking about trips of over 500 miles, flying is much faster - even when you include transit time to/from the airport and arriving at the airport an hour or two before your flight.
The only place where HSR is really feasible in the US is in the Boston-Washington corridor. That's the only corridor where population density is high enough and distances between cities are short enough for it to work.
No one doubts that flying is faster.
The problem is that without subsidy, the actual costs in fuel and resources is FAR HIGHER for flight than for rail.
When jet fuel hits $5 - $8 / gallon, while electric traction rail is a magnitude cheaper, THEN it will be self evident why rail should have been developed.
BART isn't light rail. It's heavy commuter rail with a top speed of 80mph. Light rail tops out at around 40 to 50 mph. Streetcars go up to 20-25mph (San Francisco cable car and heritage trolleys, for example). Which is fine for busy, dense downtown areas where you don't need a lot of speed.
I enjoyed taking BART everyday to work when I lived in the Bay Area. The ride is pretty good for a rail system that uses older technology. You can hold a conversation with someone without shouting. I could walk my bicycle right into the passenger compartment with no effort, which gives you an idea of how spacious it is. You can't do that on a bus. There's no lack of legroom and elbow room at all.
Last edited by cisco kid; 02-05-2012 at 03:26 PM..
The only place where HSR is really feasible in the US is in the Boston-Washington corridor. That's the only corridor where population density is high enough and distances between cities are short enough for it to work.
People seem to overlook the issue of population density in their rabid zeal "to be like everyone else"
BART isn't light rail. It's heavy commuter rail with a top speed of 80mph. Light rail tops out at around 40 to 50 mph. Streetcars go up to 20-25mph (San Francisco cable car and heritage trolleys, for example). Which is fine for busy, dense downtown areas where you don't need a lot of speed.
I enjoyed taking BART everyday to work when I lived in the Bay Area. The ride is pretty good for a rail system that uses older technology. You can hold a conversation with someone without shouting. I could walk my bicycle right into the passenger compartment with no effort, which gives you an idea of how spacious it is. You can't do that on a bus. There's no lack of legroom and elbow room at all.
Just about any modern bus has a better ride than BART. That was my point. About the only time I take the bus is when traveling. Some of the bus service in Europe is better than their trains.
I've taken the light rail in Denver. It's no different than a bus.
Just about any modern bus has a better ride than BART. That was my point. About the only time I take the bus is when traveling. Some of the bus service in Europe is better than their trains.
I've taken the light rail in Denver. It's no different than a bus.
Some of the newer more upscale buses might approach light rail in comfort and ride quality, but then they also cost a whole lot more. And still suffer many of the same problems as ordinary buses (high maintenance costs, low life span, cramped, limited interior space, etc). For the premium price you're paying for these nicer buses you might as well spring for a light rail system instead. Of course, this also depends on your particular area. In some places buses would make more sense. In more dense areas, light rail would probably be a better choice (they can carry more people than buses).
Last edited by cisco kid; 02-05-2012 at 04:58 PM..
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