Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
A pretty good video from OP that I enjoyed watching. It taps into a critical issue: the issue of 'tooth fairy economics,' and how to overcome it. The problem is that elections are now decided by the masses of swing voters, often very uninformed. Liberals can assert that " Nobody claims health-care should be free" but please explain where this woman got her ideas?
Or can claim to be anti-corporate while planning to raise $1 billion for his 2012 campaign, much of it from corporate interests? He can do this because he knows he has the tooth fairy vote, the Peggy Joseph vote, signed-sealed-delivered.
When Obama won the Iowa caucuses in 2008, he won on the strength of nearly doubled turnout, many of them first-time, previously uninvolved voters. Tooth-fairy voters. The pattern continues, and unless a way can be found to overcome this problem, the country is going to slide into a socialist abyss.
Conservatives suck because they undermine the very things they claim to believe in. Its like someone who played in their bath tub as a child and then decides it is sufficient to use those same principles they learned there to qualify as an Amazonian guide.
Now liberals on the other hand know there are dangers in the river and that we need reeducation programs for the wild life.
I guess I hate conservatives more because I think of the worst of the liberals as sort of like children or the mentally ill who cannot help themselves. Conservatives on the other hand simply have their arrogance in the way, and if they were not so lazy and arrogant could probably actually understand the current model they follow is against their interests.
On the other hand the typical liberal is not "rapture ready".....
i thought the reason for Obama care was insure those who could not pay for insurance which that makes health care free.
Hardly. I can't speak for every Democrat or every liberal, but many advocate for a single-payer system, or universal health-care, which is paid for through taxes. I.E., not free. Think insurance, but on a national scale.
Obamacare has three major impacts. Insurance companies must insure people, people must purchase\obtain insurance, and insurance companies will belong to an exchange, or a pool.
It's a bad compromise between what we have (which is undeniably broken), what we want, UHC, and what he could get away with. People think UHC would be "government takeover of healthcare," but it's obviously not the case and is only Republican misinformation. Guaranteeing to every citizen of the country a minimum of health without bankrupting them is responsible, and every other western nation does it. Australia has both a public and private system that runs very well.
Quote:
You think entitlements are not a reason for 15 trillion dollar debt you do not know much about a budget
We were projected to go into the black before President G.W. Bush took office and started two wars. Clinton's office had budget surpluses for several years (oh-my-god, a liberal who doesn't spend every dime? The horror). Killing innocent people gets expensive.
That, and the defense budget takes up a full 1\3 of our discretionary budget. That is simply insane.
Quote:
Schools are free fro illegal immigrants
Illegals pay taxes too, and schools are free to everyone in that regard, because adults don't benefit from taxes they pay for other peoples' children. But we do it, because it benefits society as a whole.
Quote:
The left response is to name call rather than facts
After a while you get tired of that kind of ignorance and just blow off steam.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevo6
Universal health care is a noble and worthy goal, but it is not a "right".
I didn't say universal health-care was a right. UHC is a great way to go. Health-care on the other hand, is definitely a right.
Quote:
If it were it would be defined as such in the Bill of Rights. For that matter , universal education is also not a right. Its great that we have it, but it is a privilege. The Bill of Rights guarantees only a few things that were deemed to be essential to the PURSUIT of liberty.
I'm under the impression you don't understand the constitution nor the bill of rights all too well. Our rights are greater than what was enumerated in the constitution. The 9th amendment is basically our founders way of saying "whatever else you think should be a right--is a right. But these ones right here? These are definitely your rights."
If, in the pursuit of life, how are you not entitled to life-saving measures?
Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo
The Bill of Rights only guarantees negative rights, not positive ones.
[MOD CUT]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegas Joe
You do NOT have a right to anything except the freedom to seek your station in life. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
Those three words are from the Declaration of Independence, which has no legal bearing on United States Law.
Quote:
The rights enshrined to you by the Constitution. So let us start at that point. Everything else is a privilege.
Another one with no comprehension of the Constitution.
Quote:
Now the debate should center on what privileges we as a country and a people should extend to others.
If you want to make that argument, everything is a privilege, including the 1st through 10th amendments, because our rights are only as good as the government wishes to protect them--by law or force.
Or we can take the Constitutional route, recognize unenumerated rights were specifically enumerated (!) to be covered by the 9th amendment, and have a civil discussion of what it means to be a right.
Quote:
Remember that every privilege that is extended to one member of society must be taken from other members.
You will have to explain that one. How does extending the "privilege" to drive take from other members?
Quote:
Now, let us start with the basics: food, basic housing and medical care. Yes, we should provide those and we do for the most part. Not only for people but even domestic animals.
I don't know if you've been watching or reading the news, but the common Republican consensus is take away Section 8, take aware SNAP, and take away Obamacare. And Unemployment Insurance. And Social Security. And Medicaid.
Quote:
I agree with this and I do not object to my money being taken by force by the government and being used to feed, shelter and house people that are destitute. Or even homeless animals. I do not object to paying for the education of children up to a point which is high school. Once a child is in high school, he or she should EARN their education by keeping at least a C GPA and not causing trouble, disorder or disturbing their teachers or fellow classmates.
Ignorance begets crime. God-forbid we try and actually help the children who don't do well at school, because clearly if a child is failing a class, it's because he's stupid and only worth the meat on his bones. Couldn't possibly be that his homelife is destructive, or that he's poor and can't afford the education to begin with. No, it's always a persons fault regardless of a tremendous number of factors outside of ones control.
This is why I can't stand the neo-conservative mind-set: Everything is a result of a lack of personal responsibility, and not because random **** happens to random people.
Quote:
As long as they do that, I do not object to the government taking my money by force and using it for the education of children. As for college, the same applies. If you are a good student in high school and you have a B average or more and you score decently on your SAT/ACT, I do not object to sending you to college and having the government take money from me by force to use to educate you. But if you are a C student and do not score well on the SAT/ACT, you should look for something else to do. Maybe a trade, maybe the military (I did), or maybe a job.
So, you want to force people who, for whatever reason, can't "make the cut" to attend a higher-education, which is just short of required these days to get a decent job. By the way, vocational schools are covered under higher-education--learning a trade and getting a livable wage in these positions usually requires vocational training.
So now, we know poor education is often tied with low incomes and poverty. So, your solution is to increase the number of poor people by keeping them poor, and shipping poor people off to them military? Subjugating them to be our fighting slaves is going to come back and bite you in the ass when they revolt.
Quote:
Not everybody is cut out for college and we need to quit loaning or giving money to those who are not. Probably no more than about 25% of high school students should go to college if that many.
A bit of an arbitrary number, and why do you think not everyone is cut out for college? Does everyone need to go to college? No, but in a job market where every livable way is paid only to those with higher-education: we've forced many peoples hands. Either go bankrupt getting an education, or work minimum wage in a sweatshop.
Quote:
We got into this mess or student debt by having a mentality that people have a "right to education" and that everybody should go to college. We need to change that.
We do have a right to education--that's why we have "free" public schools. Higher-education isn't free, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't help people better themselves. A two-year degree goes a long way for a lot of people who are unemployed right now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wutitiz
A pretty good video from OP that I enjoyed watching. It taps into a critical issue: the issue of 'tooth fairy economics,' and how to overcome it. The problem is that elections are now decided by the masses of swing voters, often very uninformed. Liberals can assert that " Nobody claims health-care should be free" but please explain where this woman got her ideas?
That she doesn't have to worry paying for her mortagage of putting gas in her car, because Obama would help her?
I want to point out that nowhere did she say that Obama was going to pay her mortgage or put gas in her car. Perhaps she's thankful because a different president means that she'll be able to do something different and won't have to worry about choosing between keeping a house over head, or about getting to work on time. Who knows, the video is obviously taken way out of context.
You may not know this, but Bill Gates, one of the richest people in the world, has his own foundation dedicated to helping poor and impoverished people and areas, globally.
It's no lie that there is a lot of dirty money in politics, and it's something the OWS movement was rallying against. But, just because someone has money, doesn't mean they can't advocate for people who have little.
Quote:
Or can claim to be anti-corporate
That's actually a Republican talking-point, not a Democrate one.
Quote:
while planning to raise $1 billion for his 2012 campaign, much of it from corporate interests? He can do this because he knows he has the tooth fairy vote, the Peggy Joseph vote, signed-sealed-delivered.
When Obama won the Iowa caucuses in 2008, he won on the strength of nearly doubled turnout, many of them first-time, previously uninvolved voters. Tooth-fairy voters. The pattern continues, and unless a way can be found to overcome this problem, the country is going to slide into a socialist abyss.
First and foremost, the dude's an ass-clown. He's a known liar and disinformer. Nobody claims health-care should be free, but you do have a right to health-care. You also have a right to an education, but nobody is claiming schools should be free. In fact, they aren't. He states at 1:14 that the government is 15 trillion dollars in debt due to entitlements. That is outright disinformation. He knows better--after all, he's been doing this for ten years--he just chooses to lie about it. I'm sick of this psychotic lunatic. Ignore decades of research and the entire field of anthropology in order to call people you don't like "bad guys" and justify killing thousands (if not millions) of their innocent civilians. Must be great to suck.
You have the right to pursue life, liberty, and happiness and equal protection under the law to conduct that pursuit. Nowhere are you guaranteed healthcare or education.
We run a budget deficit. The majority of the budget is entitlement programs. Therefore, entitlement programs contribute more to the debt than anything else.
There were more mass killings in the 20th century than any other point in history. Exactly none of them were perpetrated by Western style governments with free market economies, multi-party elections, and guarantees of individual freedom. Exactly all of them -- Russia, China, Laos, Germany, Cambodia, Uganda, Zimbabwe, the Balkans, Rwanda -- were perpetrated by socialist regimes.
Funny, I'm a regular churchgoer, am opposed to absolute power, have worked hard for what I have, and believe the U.S. should defend itself when attacked.
And I'm a liberal. Not everything fits into a neat little box, does it?
Well it does if you are a GOPer. I tell you truely. I have never in my entire life heard the likes of the total nincomoop, empty headed idiots who are currently the actual leaders of this poor excuse of a political party. They are bankrupt of any ideas of any kind on how to move the country forwards. They sure do have lots of ideas on how to move backwards. They spout discredited and disproven ideas like the ignorant goofballs they are. Half of them claim to be Christians and they much more resemble the Taliban than any Christian I have ever met. The NEVER tell the truth about anything and I'm not sure if that's just because they are such liars or they are delusional. I'm actually convinced they are in the most part, delusional liars. I really don't think there is anywhere in the civilized world where such a group of total losers even have a forum to spout their nonsence. I know for example the even the most conservative of Canadians think these people are a very bad joke. How do they get millions of Americans to listen to them and even vote for them. Are these people as stupid as their candidates?
If you claim to support the Constitution, it would help if you actually understood it. Just because a right isn't listed, doesn't mean that it is not a right, or especially that it is a privelege.
Amendment 9:
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
OK, educate me. How do we know that universal healthcare is a right? Is it because intuitively it makes sense? Is there a mandate from the people? Who defines rights?
Oh for f)(*^ sake. No where did I say that, nor do I believe it. In fact I didn't mention race at all, but you did, didn't you?
Please edit your quote to delete that thought which you falsely attribute to me.
I didn't misquote you. What I quoted is directly from your post. My subsequent reference to a Tea Party Republican is merely my analysis. You stated the "problem" was "first time voters."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kkaos2
You have the right to pursue life, liberty, and happiness and equal protection under the law to conduct that pursuit. Nowhere are you guaranteed healthcare or education.
Why do you folks quote the Declaration?
Quote:
We run a budget deficit.
Clinton ran a budget surplus.
Quote:
The majority of the budget is entitlement programs.
You sure about that? 1\2 of our discretionary spending is solely on the department of defense. Another 1\2 is on everything else our government does.
Quote:
Therefore, entitlement programs contribute more to the debt than anything else.
.
You're talking about Social Security, which has its own tax, or Medicare and Medicaid, which has its own tax?
Quote:
There were more mass killings in the 20th century than any other point in history.
Depends on who you ask. God certainly killed millions, not to mention, countless wars over the past several thousand years.
Quote:
Exactly none of them were perpetrated by Western style governments with free market economies, multi-party elections, and guarantees of individual freedom. Exactly all of them -- Russia, China, Laos, Germany, Cambodia, Uganda, Zimbabwe, the Balkans, Rwanda -- were perpetrated by socialist regimes.
So it's Bill Whipple 4, you 0.
Socialism and communism aren't the same thing, and fascism is diametrically opposed to communism. The majority of western society has a balance between "socialism," regulated capitalism, and most have rights too, democratic elections, and other signature "western culture" highlights. Western Society isn't just the United States. In fact, the United States is behind on western-culture.
So, Whipple's still a zero-sum ass clown who deliberately misinforms and lies to his viewers--just like the rest of the Republican talking heads--and I've still pretty much proved him to be so.
I didn't misquote you. What I quoted is directly from your post. My subsequent reference to a Tea Party Republican is merely my analysis. You stated the "problem" was "first time voters."
No but you did attribute a thought to me, which I nowhere expressed, nor do I believe:
Originally Posted by konraden You're right, only white land-owners should vote--because they have skin in the game.
Nowhere did I say anything about white landowners, yet you attribute this to me. Again, please edit this out.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
