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Old 02-28-2012, 05:04 AM
 
Location: MS
4,395 posts, read 4,911,959 times
Reputation: 1564

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Gringo View Post
!. overturn citizens united

2. campaign finance reform

3. lobbyist reform

The only chance we have is to restrict the influence of corporate funding/patronage.
All of those ideas are just changing the direction of the big government machine and not shrinking it. If the federal government were smaller and had less influence on business there would be no need for your three ideas.
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Old 02-28-2012, 05:09 AM
 
Location: USA - midwest
5,944 posts, read 5,583,949 times
Reputation: 2606
Default Why are modern Americans afraid of liberty?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PcolaFLGuy View Post
While many like to pontificate on how our Founding Fathers did things, most of them feel they must overlook the overriding theme of our Founders.

Liberty.

Many more want freedom for themselves but regulation for others.

Neither of the two major parties promote liberty. They want more and more of our personal lives regulated.

Have you ever stopped to think about how many restrictions and regulations are currently placed on your personal liberty at the local, state and national level?

In the past, I have voted Dem because I didn't care for the proposals of the GOP to continue infringing on my social liberties. The Dems, of course, infringe upon my economic liberties.

What gives? When will this end?

Congressman/Dr./Vet Ron Paul has taught me so much this election cycle.

FREEDOM IS POPULAR!!! Seize it!

The GOP & DNC don't want us to have personal liberty. They can't control us when we have true liberty.

How can we stop this out-of-control train??
Afraid of liberty?

That statement is nuts.

Unaware of liberty is more like it.

In current day America, liberty is reserved for corporate entities, not citizens. Unless you're a citizen with tremendous resources at your fingertips. The rest of us get the illusion of liberty through gadgetry.

Relax, as long as you have your smart phone and i-pad, you're OK.
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Old 02-28-2012, 05:24 AM
 
Location: somewhere in the woods
16,880 posts, read 15,198,564 times
Reputation: 5240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ford Beebe View Post
Rhetorical nonsense.

maybe, but it does look like people are afraid of freedom and liberty. all they want is another check from the goverment, and for the feds to grow even larger.

in the end, that sort of equation will do nothing but destroy the republic.
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Old 02-28-2012, 05:56 AM
 
9,617 posts, read 6,064,273 times
Reputation: 3884
I think mogal has caught the essence of the why we don't seek liberty.
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Old 02-28-2012, 07:04 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia
11,998 posts, read 12,935,751 times
Reputation: 8365
Quote:
Originally Posted by wade52 View Post
Afraid of liberty?

That statement is nuts.

Unaware of liberty is more like it.

In current day America, liberty is reserved for corporate entities, not citizens. Unless you're a citizen with tremendous resources at your fingertips. The rest of us get the illusion of liberty through gadgetry.

Relax, as long as you have your smart phone and i-pad, you're OK.
Very true. We've had a monstrous and ever-growing Federal Government influenced for decades by a small number of people and have been at wars for 10 years. At home, imprisonment rates are through the roof.
It seems Americans are numb but carefree so long as 'Jersey Shore' and the new I-Phone is out next Month.
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Old 02-28-2012, 07:10 AM
 
2,472 posts, read 3,198,096 times
Reputation: 2268
We all underestimate the power of the media and the stupidity of average people. This includes myself. Do you know how many people became patently racist and hateful towards anyone that looks arab or appears to be muslim after 9/11?

People were completely OK with killing arabs, no matter who it was, all for revenge. Questioning the motives of the Iraq war was seen as betrayal, and now look what happened after all of that smoke cleared: almost everyone realized what a mistake they made.

The media and advertising have literally told people what they want and how they should feel. And people listen because what else does an American strive for except having their own place with a TV. It's so easy to take things from us because we let them. I could write an essay on this, but I think you get the point.
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Old 02-28-2012, 07:54 AM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,818,277 times
Reputation: 12341
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal View Post
Apparently you missed the part about our inalienable rights being granted by our Creator (not government).
"Our Creator". Who is that? Allah?
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Old 02-28-2012, 07:54 AM
 
2,836 posts, read 3,496,025 times
Reputation: 1406
I think the above posts underscore the need for a reexamination of our values; and, more fundamentally, what we stand for as Americans. Do we stand for freedom and equality? Freedom and equality are ideals; but, absent a perfect world, no one can live in society and be entirely free or completely equal. For every freedom there is a corresponding obligation to others, and equality is limited to the extent that such obligations are mutual, and others do not demand rights without responsibility for their exercise. In this, the promise of America is not freedom and equality, but rather liberty and equal opportunity and justice under law. However, such promise cannot be kept when government instituted by men favors the few in derogation of the many, or serves the special interests at the expense of the public interest, and when the rich and powerful can have more justice than the poor and oppressed.

America is a nation of laws and not men. But the law can be both used and abused by men; and so it is the duty and responsibility of every citizen to oversee those that make and enforce the laws and administer justice, lest our democratic institutions be turned into a tyranny over us.
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Old 02-28-2012, 08:05 AM
 
Location: Texas
38,859 posts, read 25,538,911 times
Reputation: 24780
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert_J View Post
All of those ideas are just changing the direction of the big government machine and not shrinking it. If the federal government were smaller and had less influence on business there would be no need for your three ideas.

No my friend, you have it backwards. The stranglehold that corporations have on the government is the problem.
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Old 02-28-2012, 09:38 AM
 
Location: somewhere in the woods
16,880 posts, read 15,198,564 times
Reputation: 5240
Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
"Our Creator". Who is that? Allah?


creator is whoever you believe created you in a spiritual sense.

to me, it sure as hell isnt allah or mohammed.
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