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I rep'd you for this because you're an excellent object lesson.
Yeah, alrighty then. AIPAC invented lobbying, and the American dysfunctional political system that permits anyone with enough money in their pocket to use itself as a puppet? Why does this not register as evidence that AMERICA has to clean it's own porch rather than point a bony finger at the globe obsessing with the blame game forever at the lobbyists themselves who were invited to fill the pig trough circumventing democracy and reason in the first place?
I can go to any disaster cite with a crayon and a camera and point false allegations and supposition about motives at YOU. It would make me correct? No. It would make me a liar if I knowingly made those false allegations. If I manufactured evidence to push an agenda. It would be an irresponsible use of free speech to portray myself as speaking God's honest truth bearing false witness.
All you've managed to do using this film as evidence is obscure the real facts that are worthy of confrontation with an alternative agenda that is destructive. I must reject it, along with you, for the demented allegations you've endorsed as I would any other Trojan horse or small pox infected blanket that would have the audacity of claiming itself to be charity. Not just no, but HELL no.
I think you subconsciencely repped me for providing solid evidence of the agenda of Israel.
The world would be a better place if the Irgun gang, led by future Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin, and the Stern gang, led by future Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir hadn't brutally massacred 200 men, women and children as they were sleeping peacefully in the Arab village of Deir Yassin in 1948, thus establishing the state of Israel.
Following the United Nations transfer of Palestine to an independent Jewish state and an independent Arab state on May 15, 1948; the Israelis launched a military assault on the Arabs with blaring loudspeakers on their trucks informing the Arabs that if they did not flee immediately, they would be slaughtered.
The Palestinians, many of them Christians, were never paid compensation for their homes, property and businesses stolen from them during this illegal Jewish assault, and these people ended up in slum refugee cities of tents. Futhermore at least half of the Palestinians in their hurry to flee, left their birth certificates behind. The State of Israel then passed a law that only those who could prove citizenship were allowed to return to Israel, thus meaning these 400,000 Palestinians could not return and lost all their property they had left there.
That woudn't have anything to do with why everybody in that region hates Israel.
1. Are you aware that the Disputed Territories never belonged to the “Palestinians” and only came into Israeli possession as a result of the 1967 six day war in which Egypt, Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon all massed forces at Israel’s border in order to “push the Jews into the sea”. The Arabs lost and Israel took control of the land. Do you agree that if the Arabs don’t want to lose territory to Israel, then they shouldn’t start wars? Do you agree that there is justice that Israel, who as far back as 1948 has always sought peace with her far larger neighbors, should live in prosperity – making the desert bloom – while the residents of 19 adjacent Arab countries who are blessed with far more land as well as oil wealth live in their own feces?
2. Did you know that the “Palestinians” could have had their own country as far back as 1948 had they accepted the UN sponsored partition plan which gave Israel AND the Palestinians a countries of their own on land which Jews had lived on for thousands of years before Mohammed ever had a wet dream about virgins? The Arabs rejected the UN offer and went to war with the infant Israeli nation. The Arabs lost and have been whining about it ever since. Do you agree this is like a murderer who kills his parents and asks for special treatment since he is now an orphan?
3. Can you tell us ANY Arab country which offers Jews the right to be citizens, vote, own property, businesses, be a part of the government or have ANY of the rights which Israeli Arabs enjoy? Any Arab country which gives those rights to Christians? How about to other Arabs? Wouldn’t you just LOVE to be a citizen of Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Iran, or Syria?
4. Since as many Jews (approximately 850,000) were kicked out of Arab countries as were Arabs who left present day Israel (despite being literally begged to stay), why should Arabs be permitted to return to Israel if Jews aren’t allowed to set foot in Arab countries? Can you explain why Arabs can worship freely in Israel but Jews would certainly be hung from street lamps after having their intestines devoured by an Arab mob if they so much as entered an Arab country?
5. Israel resettled and absorbed all of the Jews from Arab countries who wished to become Israelis. Why haven’t any Arab countries offered to resettle Arabs who were displaced from Israel, leaving them to rot for 60 years in squalid refugee camps? And why are those refugee camps still there? Could it be that the billions of dollars that the UNWRA has sent there goes to terrorist groups like Hamas, Islamic Jihad, El Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, or Hezbollah? How did Yassir Arafat achieve his $300 million in wealth? Why aren’t these funds distributed for humanitarian use?
6. Did you know that the Arabs in the disputed territories (conquered by Israel in the 1967 war which was started by Arabs) and who are not Israelis already have two countries right now? And that they are called Egypt and Jordan?
7. If your complaint is about the security fence which Israel is finally building in the Disputed Territories, are you aware that it is built solely to keep the “brave” Arab terrorists out so that they can no longer self detonate on buses, in dining halls or pizzerias and kill Jewish grandmothers and schoolchildren? Why are the Arabs so brave when they target unarmed civilians but even when they outnumber their opponents they get their kicked all the way to Mecca when they are faced with Jewish soldiers? Why do Arab soldiers make the French look like super heroes?
8. Please explain why you are so concerned about Arabs, who possess 99% of the land in this region and are in control of the world’s greatest natural resource, which literally flows out of the ground? Can’t their brother Muslims offer some of the surplus land and nature’s riches to the “Palestinians”? Or is it true that Arabs are willing to die right down to the last “Palestinian”?
9. Why do you not exhibit the same level of concern for say, people in Saudi Arabia who are beheaded, subject to amputation, stoning, honor killing etc.? What about women who are denied any semblance of basic civil rights, including the right not to be treated as property for the entertainment and abuse of her father, brothers, or husbands? What about the Muslims in Sudan and Egypt who are still enslaved, or the women there whose genitalia are barbarically cut off? How about the oppression of Shiites by Sunnis, the gassing of the Kurds by Iraq, or the massacre of “Palestinians” by Jordan (Black September)? Why doesn’t this concern you?
10. Did you ever stop to wonder how much better off everyone in the region would be if Arabs stopped trying to kill Jews and destroy Israel? What would happen if the Israelis gave up their weapons and disarmed? Would they live to see the next day? But what would happen if the Arabs completely disarmed? You know the answer: They would all be AT PEACE! And if there is no war to rile them up, the Arabs would be forced to look at their own repressive, pre-medieval societies. Why would they want to do that when there are Jews to kill?
11. Have you heard “People who define themselves primarily by what they hate, rather than who they love, are doomed to failure and misery”? Can you see the parallels to the Arabs, who are blessed with land and oil, but still gladly train their children to kill themselves in order to kill Jews? Have you heard Golda Meir’s words to the effect of “There will be peace when the Arabs love their children more than they hate ours”? Why do the Arabs hate so much?
1950: Israel passes their law of return, guaranteeing every Jew worldwide the right to dwell in the state of Israel, however the Palestinians even though they had lived there for 1300 years, were denied that right.
When an efficient, industrialized society establishes itself near one that is both uncompromisingly primitive and unable to make efficient use of its resources, that society loses ground.
It didn'r happen only in the Middle East or the American West; the histories of both the Ancient and Medieval worlds are replete with similar brutality
The only way to reasonably resolve that haves vs the have nots argument plaguing humanity all along is establishing fair systems of exchange that don't allow so much concentration of wealth and power. They inevitably put themselves in the business of defending itself as an independent institution (covetous Golums) at the expense of LIFE, competing negatively with the better interests of living beings, sovereign nations and global peace. Complaining about the limitations of an old model car by blaming huge swaths of people for it's design isn't in any way productive. It's a cop out avoiding the homework of designing a better mode of transport sitting in stinky diapers with victim narratives.
I could apply this same thinking to every single episode in history where my faith of origin- Catholicism- has wrote itself a blank check to go wayward through a myopic or self serving Papacy. This particular era, the crimes against humanity anyone would be claiming Catholicism inflicts are boots on the ground being inflicted by corporations operating like pirates above the law in a 3rd party narrative existence.
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Originally Posted by 2nd trick op
The day may come when a physical homeland is no longer so closely tied to the concept of nationhood. That idea is already evolving among many of the better-educated, including many Jews who understand that the concept of physical nationhood just isn't worth the cost in subjugation to a state with too much power.
I think you've stretched conclusions to an irrational extreme on this one. The integrity of Sovereignty is not a concept to abandon because it will only become another form of subjugation forcing the masses of the planet into a never ending nomadic lifestyle denying them their roots. That's unhealthy for humanity to consider as a legitimate solution. It's harmful to life, disruptive & dysfunctional to civilization. You need to get your feet back on the ground from this pie in the sky abstract existence you're living out. I can agree with you to the point of defending sticks and stones at the expense of their meaning and worth is a perversion of political will/ good faith I'm sick of being held hostage by.
I've actually already had this discussion among Catholics concerned about terrorist targeting the Vatican (they've been on high alert for some time now). Try as anyone may, burn my Church down, Catholicism is in my bones. It's not going anywhere and not subject to peer pressure displacement. It's not possible to eradicate the Bible because if each and every copy evaporated by the hand of God each and every faithful would commence to putting pen to paper and recalling it from memory collaboratively. The printing pressings would up and running all over again.
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Originally Posted by 2nd trick op
But when the element of a fundamentalist religion, or even a secular substitute like Nazisim (are you listening -- Serbia? or even French Quebec?) then the potential for abuse multiplies.
Why is it they we are giving so much license to the corruption of religious practice hiding behind the cloak of religious belief? Why are pretext of false religion CREATING mentally ill people having their religious 'rights' protected to get on a train to Auschwitz or Guyana, however you care to name the destination. Same difference, is it not? Can we not point at self destructive/ predatory/ anti social behavior as an indication of theological quackery?
What calls itself Orthodox (a misnomer for extremism & ignorance) defends a tumor at the expense of the truth. At the expense of the very core of faith. It makes mockery of the sacred in it's conduct and needs to be confronted for the charlatanism it is by the religious within the given faith.
Other: The anti-Semites are more outspoken than they have been since WWII.
Absolutely true, because they are malevolent people. They derive self worth by sucking the life out of all others around them. They stand tall only by digging an intellectual ditch for all others to live in full time as opposed to sharing information/ wisdom/ resources freely to empower individuals in their community. Who has a vested interest in seeing you small/ blind? Who has a vested interest in seeing you empowered to thrive and own your individual life fully?
THEM:
Egypt
Syria
Major Arab Expeditionary Forces:
Iraq Iraq
Jordan
Supported by:
Soviet Union
Morocco
Saudi Arabia
Tunisia
Libya
Kuwait
Algeria
Sudan
Lebanon
Pakistan
North Korea
Cuba
Versus US:
Israel
Supported by:
United States
People need to quit looking at whole nations in terms of national identity, and more in terms of national gerrymandered philosophies they're living out (oftentimes against their will) in a muddled confused state at any given point in time. No human being is impervious or has achieved of perfected philosophical state or system. At best we crudely approximate and aspire for perfection. When each and every one of these individual philosophies on the THEM list of belligerents are destructive, offer nothing constructive to humanity whatsoever, what is the legitimate basis for their grievance?
Any chance they're demanding therapy projecting their mental illness & thuggish power grabs at all others? Looks that way to me when they're exhibiting an unwillingness to own their own porch. They failed to forge a reasonable means of self determination leading by positive example. You can't help a drunk clinging to his bottle convinced all of humanity has robbed him of his life. He robbed himself and no amount of intellectual appeal can reach those unwilling to learn. When they've made careers out of avoiding meaningful embrace of free will as individuals.
Validating them emotionally as they engage in self inflicted wounds is not befriending them. It's exploiting them for nefarious deeds. It's not Judeo-Christian ethic in play. It is it's opposite, it's nemesis, inflicting itself on huge swaths of the population. The micro scale of individual dysfunctions mirrors the macro scale of dysfunction on the planet. Who profits from this? Not the decent majority of people on the globe. They're at IT'S mercy too often.
If there was a bomb dropped on Israel, I would not shed even one tear. Not one single one.
Same with Palestine before you all accuse me of hating the Jews.
Okay, then I'll just accuse you of hating innocent humans... you do realize many of the inhabitants of that land are children, right? I'm ashamed to call myself a liberal when it comes to this subject.
I think you subconsciencely repped me for providing solid evidence of the agenda of Israel.
Keep dreaming... do you consider YouTube a reliable reference source? If so, you're not even worthy of commenting on this topic - or ANY serious topic, for that matter.
Keep dreaming... do you consider YouTube a reliable reference source? If so, you're not even worthy of commenting on this topic - or ANY serious topic, for that matter.
You have a point to some degree, and I admit I might have over-reacted in the heat of the moment.
I suck at diplomacy. We do what we can, right? Mutual mea culpa, lets get back to work...
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Originally Posted by 2nd trick op
But the fact remains -- it is not the Israelis who take hostages, hijack airliners, and wage war on the innocent.
I don't dispute those facts. I'm pointing at facts edited out, some of which favors the legitimacy of Palestinians who are not able to peacefully exist due to malevolence among them using them as human shields. Israel knows this but Palestinians need to have that argument among themselves first before they ever petition the world court for redress of grievances that they themselves have facilitated all along. Correct?
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different outcome. How many years of soup kitchen work shall we engage before we step out of that kitchen, take a look at the landscape, and figure out a way for people to grow their own food? To have policies that facilitate self sufficiency wherever possible for every man woman and child without going to an irrational extreme making mockery of terra firma reality demanding infants breastfeed themselves.
The strength of men, the strength of a nation, a religion, and/or a philosophy lies within their ability to lead by positive example. The globe is currently being led around by the nose by the dregs of civilization that makes it's living preying upon it. Purist notions of capitalism/ free market is aiding and abetting the full time servicing of self destructive vices. Educating people about the reality of these vices is the antidote for madison avenue BS on steroids turning the masses into blithering idiots. Applicable anywhere, at any time in history-- but-- how about dealing with that here and now?
I'm part of 99%. The malevolent 1% at the bottom creating mayhem is a mirror of the 1% at the top creating mayhem. Think about who is leading whom, and who is the real problem. 99% getting caught in the middle as collateral damage for this retardation is the core of the movements grievance. The difference between top and bottom 1% is a matter of max reward for crime and max punishment (applicable only to the bottom) for their infliction upon humanity.
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Originally Posted by 2nd trick op
And yet no single prominent Muslim has had the courage to stand up against the thugs and savages within his ranks. And we both know that's because those thugs are so unprincipled that they will slaughter their own rather than moderate their stridency.
The legitimacy of Islam is in question when every dove of wisdom the faith has to it's credit is slaughtered by it's fundies. Germans killed their best and brightest as well- all self inflicted. The mental patients ruling the hospital isn't cutting it, but, alas... when principles are the first thing sacrificed to defend knuckle dragging male supremacy- are we as a nation really so far away from that? Can't we do better here and forge a better philosophical pattern for our own sakes, and for the sake of humanity at large?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd trick op
Yasir Arafat had the opportunity to break away from the rabble on 9/11 --- he chose not to do so. Bush should have invited him to a "dialogue" at the White House --- then arrested him as a war crimninal.
Disagree. You've fed into the America is superman global cop delusion. I agree he is guilty, but deliver him to the Hague. The purpose of objective 3rd party judgments is what? I don't want the judge bought and sold to serve my personal bidding. I want justice served even handedly, commensurate with the depth/ breadth of the crime.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd trick op
And when a criminal shows no remose, and no interest in rehabilitation, what answer -- other than subjugation -- is available?
Containment. Relinquish them to the elements they worship- the law of the jungle they live out should be their judge. The Queen of England had it exactly right emptying out her jails to Australia. Elegant, humane, economical. Stick a fork in me, I'm done.
Expending inordinate amounts of $$$ on those unwilling to participate in civilization is a fools errand. Anyone unwilling to aspire for meaningful participation in civilization should be given the option of putting their hand up and deported to Afghanistan or it's equivalent. Yes, if they're peaceful I have no qualms about having American nomads living it out on the Appalachian trail if they don't mind burying their own. I have no time or patience to babysit those unwilling to help themselves save for genuinely vulnerable disabled, infants and elderly. Grown men with teeth demanding females (legally/ financially/ literally) breast feed them at the expense of their children need a (philosophical/ religious/ legalistic) shove off a cliff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd trick op
I know which side I'm on, and unless the Islamists, like their left-wing apologetics here, admit that the playing field isn't level, I will behave like the man who has discovered a den of rattlesnakes on his property.
ROFL!! You don't know what side you're on when the left wing you claim to be your nemesis are the very people-- Southern Poverty Law center-- pointing at KKK and Nation of Islam for the malevolent hate groups they are. Your political party reliably assaults them with false accusations as unjust & partisan. Hatred & destructive behavior is partisan. An unwillingness to uphold law & principles simply disqualifies citizenship in America.
SPLC doesn't make excuses for these morons. Extreme right wing cannibalizing moderates/ centrists does. SPLC is pointing at a dysfunctional aspect of American society surely as Fred Phelps/ Jim Jones is a festering boil on legitimate religion. It's all right there in plain sight. Dereliction of duty for a century. How shall we correct this, if not by refining the laws applicable issuing credibility to criminal activity? How shall we correct this, if not by removing the reward/ emulation behind being a villain/ copy cat killer? How shall we correct eminent domain clauses exploited through mass delusions creating dust bowl disasters on global scale?
There is only one side worth being on, and that would be on the side of truth & health. Debate on merits of argument, be willing to rid yourself of every lie and delusion, I'll gladly serve and defend your right to free speech as any other citizen upholding principles. Not the right to lie, cheat, steal, and prey on my fellow countrymen. Not the right to do the very same on an international scale, either. It's killing us. It must end.
I ADAMANTLY OPPOSE sending my brothers and sisters in arms into ANY conflict with a lie installed in their minds. It too is a march off a cliff. It too kills them even if they make it off the battlefield. That's what the suicide rate is about. Clean up the mission statements. This abuse of the troops is morally reprehensible. Bush inc belonged in the Hague with Arafat.
“People who define themselves primarily by what they hate, rather than who they love, are doomed to failure and misery”? Can you see the parallels to the Arabs, who are blessed with land and oil, but still gladly train their children to kill themselves in order to kill Jews? Have you heard Golda Meir’s words to the effect of “There will be peace when the Arabs love their children more than they hate ours”? Why do the Arabs hate so much?
ht Nekama's troll hammer
That right there also explains the dysfunction of political parties and special interests acting like vampires at the expense of the greater good worthy of defense. Men are deluded into defending all the wrong things for all the wrong reasons and leave in shambles what was worthy of defense and promotion. Love itself. Women either blithely follow them along, or they vote otherwise with their feet. Choose wisely ladies.
I owe you a million rep points.
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That right there also explains the dysfunction of political parties and special interests acting like vampires at the expense of the greater good worthy of defense. Men are deluded into defending all the wrong things for all the wrong reasons and leave in shambles what was worthy of defense and promotion. Love itself. Women either blithely follow them along, or they vote otherwise with their feet. Choose wisely ladies.
