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What no one seems to want to admit is that, Trayvon was looking for a fight, and he got a fight.
Was he really? It seems to me that he was simply walking to his father's fiancee's home after a trip to the cornerstore. Zimmerman is believed to have a history of violence, while Martin does not, so many might be inclined to believe that Zimmerman was the one looking for an altercation.
Either way, this case is going to trial, and as someone brought up earlier, those directly involved in the case likely have a lot of information that we don't, so it's pretty pointless for all of us to be sitting here playing armchair detective now.
Note that Trayvon supposedly asked "Why are you following me?", negating the many posts on here stating that GZ quit following TM at the dispatcher's request.
I could really care less what others say. The dispatcher never told him not to follow. The dispatcher said "we don't need you to do that."
Quote:
Asking, why are you following me is hardly starting a "confrontation".
Look, if Trayvon felt safe enough to ask the guy why he was following him, it says a lot about the mental state of Trayvon at the time.
For instance, if I was a woman walking home at night, and some guy was following me, and I was scared. I would not turn around and ask the guy why he was following me. I would most likely look for safety. And Trayvon was very close to home when this happened.
The reality is, the fact that Trayvon was behaving like he was, showed that he wasn't scared of Zimmerman at all. And the fact that he refused to answer Zimmermans question, showed that he was angry/annoyed at Zimmerman for following him. Which is a pretty normal reaction to someone following you.
The problem is that, not only did the verbal confrontation start because of Trayvon, most likely the physical confrontation also started because of Trayvon. Being that Trayvon had been the only one to throw a punch, and Trayvon had been on top of Zimmerman when he was shot.
So, while I don't think Trayvon deserved to die, its hard for me to have much sympathy for him, being that he directly began the conflict on multiple levels.
People talk about how Zimmerman made stupid decisions, and they are probably right. But Trayvon made plenty of stupid decisions as well, and in my mind, his decisions were even worse.
Was he really? It seems to me that he was simply walking to his father's fiancee's home after a trip to the cornerstore. Zimmerman is believed to have a history of violence, while Martin does not, so many might be inclined to believe that Zimmerman was the one looking for an altercation.
Look, you look can look at backgrounds all you want. But when we look at the facts, we can see that Zimmerman was just following Martin(whether or not that was a good idea or not is irrelevant). It was Martin who spoke the first words to Zimmerman. It was Martin who punched Zimmerman. That isn't me making stuff up, those are all the facts that we have available. Everything else that happened before and after doesn't really matter.
If Martin, who was almost home, and could have just ran to his door if he was scared, had the gumption to turn around and forcefully start asking Zimmerman why he is following him, he simply wasn't scared. He could have easily just went home. And if he was actually fearful of his life, he could have knocked on peoples doors in the neighborhood as he walked home, it was only 7 PM. But no, the evidence basically shows he was not scared at all. He did not behave anything like someone who was scared. He behaved like someone who was angry. And was looking to start something with Zimmerman, and that is what happened.
And while it is perfectly understandable for someone to be angry that someone is following him at night. It doesn't give him the right to attack Zimmerman. And if he attacked Zimmerman out of anger, and then Zimmerman shot him, I just can't feel sorry for him.
Look, Crump is the Martin's lawyer. Maybe she was a fabrication, I don't know. This is what the NYT article says...
According to Benjamin Crump, a lawyer for Trayvon’s parents, Trayvon was on his cellphone with his girlfriend before he was shot, telling her that a man was following him. Trayvon asked, “Why are you following me?” Mr. Crump said the girl told her. The girl then heard a faraway voice ask, “What are you doing around here?” Mr. Crump said. She also said that she heard what sounded like an earpiece to Trayvon’s cellphone falling away before the line went dead.
In my mind, this is the most damning evidence against Trayvon. Which basically says that Trayvon started up the confrontation that ended in his death. It doesn't really matter what Trayvon said, the very fact that Trayvon began the confrontation, is enough to show that up to that point, Zimmerman was merely keeping an eye on him. And that Trayvon was not scared of Zimmerman. But rather he was angry/annoyed that Zimmerman was following him.
So when we talk about how if Zimmerman didn't follow Martin, it wouldn't have happened. We can really list several things that could have happened differently, that would have prevented an escalation of violence. And one of them was that Trayvon could have just walked home and not said anything. Another is that Trayvon could have just said he lived there.
What no one seems to want to admit is that, Trayvon was looking for a fight, and he got a fight.
You are joking right? you mean that you can shot for asking why the hell are you being followed? In you mind that is picking a fight? You do realize that zimmerman really had no authority to ask him anything. Trayvon would have been in his rights to tell zimmerman to go screw himself if he wanted to.
Here is a question for you, do you think zimmerman would have approached a grown whiteman or latino the same way?
Oh, more thing if Trayvon would have kept walking don't you think that zimmerman would have kept following him?
Bullets with a cavity in the tip to allow greater expansion and less penetration on impact with a target.
Usually identified as "cop-killerbullets," even though hollowpoints are actually less effective at penetrating body armor than standard ball rounds. [end quote]
Urban dictionary is your source for technical information on firearms and ammunition? Really?
It make it hard to take your posts seriously, but even that post admits that JHP does a poorer job of penetrating a ballistic vest than FMJ.
from that same site:
Quote:
hollowpoint bullet5 up, 45 down
Hollowpoint bullets are bullets used in firearms like pistols.
They are sharp, causing the bullet to blow up when hitting the
target, causing maximal damage. Hollowpoint bullet easily
takes someone's head off. Hollowpoint bullets are illegal in
most countries for civilian people.
virtually nothing is right in this post. Well, I guess he got one thing right, pistols (to be more precise, semi-automatic handguns) are indeed firearms.
1) HP bullets are not "sharp", they have a big azz recess. Hence the name "hollow point".
2) They don't "blow up". No bullet without an explosive tip "blows up". A hollow point does expand significantly.
3) They won't "easily take someone's head off". The muzzle velocity of handguns is insufficient to generate even a significant temporary wound channel (in flesh anyway), let alone "take someone's head off". I just watched a video over the weekend of someone shot in the head with 4 9mm hollowpoints, and he was still functioning and fighting. He was killed when some gang banger emptied another dozen or so rounds into him.
4) JHP bullets may be illegal in some countries, but the US isn't one of them.
But feel free to keep using "urban dictionary" as your resource, it makes it much easier to debate you.
Last edited by Toyman at Jewel Lake; 04-30-2012 at 10:42 AM..
You are joking right? you mean that you can shot for asking why the hell are you being followed? In you mind that is picking a fight? You do realize that zimmerman really had no authority to ask him anything. Trayvon would have been in his rights to tell zimmerman to go screw himself if he wanted to.
Yes, he would have been. He was not within his rights when he threw the first punch.
In my mind, there are really just two issues in this case.
1) Profiling. Whether it be because of race, or because he was wearing a hoodie, or whatever else. Trayvon seemed suspicious to Zimmerman because of his appearance.
Why did Zimmerman feel that Martin's appearance made him suspicious? Was his suspicion justified? And if so, what can we do to prevent good people from getting profiled?
2) Does someone have the right to follow someone who they believe looks suspicious?
I suggest you look up more information on Dee Dee, she isn't his girlfriend and was actually in a relationship with someone else.
Also I recommend checking out her twitter postings. While she was in mourning, she was posting about having fun and other random stuff all day.
Apparently the girlfriend has been a fabrication by Crump.
Interesting, I haven't focused too much on her because frankly I find her to be not much of an addition to the case. I guess her phone records and add an additional timeline but beyond that there is not much there.
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