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Why was Christianity used as any example for high school students? Thought that religion was supposed to be kept out of schooling for students. Can bullying be talked about without bringing up religion or was his point to say that Christians bully homosexuals and no one else does? Homosexuality on the other hand is allowed to be discussed amongst high school attendees.
Why was Christianity used as any example for high school students? Thought that religion was supposed to be kept out of schooling for students. Can bullying be talked about without bringing up religion or was his point to say that Christians bully homosexuals and no one else does? Homosexuality on the other hand is allowed to be discussed amongst high school attendees.
Schooling?
This was a private convention put on by two private organizations that aspiring high school journalists, with the permission of their parents, could attend if they so chose. They can discuss whatever they want in whatever way they want to do so.
Oh please. I don't see how people electing to go see a controversial speaker at a privately held convention and then being offended is equatable to bullying.
I'm a gay atheist. If I choose to attend a Christian sermon or Muslim khuṭbah, am offended by and anti-atheist or anti-gay message, perhaps choose to verbalize my disagreement with the pastor or khatib and am branded as a sinner (or much worse), and the leave, was I just "bullied"?
I agree This post is actually well thought out and specific. yes, we know that Dan Savage is controversial and he speaks his mind. But, did the kids know this? But more importantly, did the school rep or authority figure willingly mislead the audience? Like I said in my previous post... I am all for freedom of speech. But, when someone manipulates the system and abuses their platform then I call BS. The gay community are the ones who want to create "hate crimes" and anti-bullying laws for non-violent speech that opposes homosexuality. Much of the bullying is verbal abuse, and not actual physical abuse. The comments that Savage said were exactly the type of stuff that the gays oppose. This is is similar to gangsta blacks who continue to use the N word, but threaten to kill or sue when someone else says the same thing. Freedom of speech is for all Americans. We don't need special hate laws for gays.
Bullying is taking advantage of an imbalance in power to habitually use abusive, often physical, force to affect and coerce others. This incident isn't even close to bullying.
There was no imbalance of power: These students freely chose to attend this conference, they then freely chose to attend this particular speech, they had the power to challenge and speak out against Savage, and they were not a captive audience and could leave at any time. There was no habitual element to this whatsoever. There was no force used or attempt to coerce by Savage - he was arguing (admittedly crassly) in an attempt to persuade.
A crassly delivered message you, and many in attendance, disagree with - yes
Bullying - no
Of course it was bullying. There was an imbalance of power (adult-minors) and it included public embarrassment and repeated profanity.
The students were lured into the presentation under the assumption it was a "safe" arena for the discussion of anti-bullying; not to be mocked and publicly insulted as well as schooled on the speaker's crude interpretation of the Bible.
I don't want this man being part of the national anti-bullying campaign being touted by the administration and followed in our public schools.
This was a private convention put on by two private organizations that aspiring high school journalists, with the permission of their parents, could attend if they so chose. They can discuss whatever they want in whatever way they want to do so.
Okay, so forget the "schooling " part....but what about the rest? Can bullying be talked about without it being a religion vs homosexual discussion? Are not there many other forms from other areas that might constitute bullying? Or was his point that Christians bully homosexuals and/or homosexuals bully Christians?
Okay, so forget the "schooling " part....but what about the rest? Can bullying be talked about without it being a religion vs homosexual discussion? Are not there many other forms from other areas that might constitute bullying? Or was his point that Christians bully homosexuals and/or homosexuals bully Christians?
To answer your questions: Yes, it can. Yes, there are. His point in the snippet of the speech in question was that a subset of Christians have used their reading of the Bible as a justification for bullying LGBT folks. Not all Christians, not most Christians, and not as the only justification nor as the only bullies.
ETA: For those who are referring to repeated swearing (which I have already said in multiple posts I found inappropriate for a teen audience) as the same thing as systematic, repeated incidents of bullying, I think this undermines the experience of any child who is being routinely bullied. Not just gay kids bullied for their sexual orientation, but any kid bullied for any reason.
Last edited by eastwesteastagain; 04-29-2012 at 06:07 PM..
if a person goes around giving speeches on anti bullying they shouldn't insult people because of their religion or use bully tactics when they are peacefully walking out. Se how that works. It makes him a Hypocrite.
Quote:
Originally Posted by doctrain
From the convention website, it says that Savage will speak "about alternative media, social media and creating a movement against bullying." It goes on to add, "...he creates a safe space for all audiences to honestly discuss 'taboo' topics."
Obviously, this was not a "discussion" and it certainly didn't qualify as a "safe space."
These minors should not have to endure the bullyish behavior displayed by this adult. They were correct to walk out, which they did so peacefully. These children were shining examples of respectful behavior. Can't say the same about the speaker, who I wouldn't want coming near school kids again. We need a public apology and assurance that this individual will not be part of any national anti-bullying program. His tactics are abusive. Thats my opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roaddog
Savage was supposed to be delivering a speech about anti-bullying at the National High School Journalism Conference, High school students, first off why did he need to start cussing? Then when some kids had enough and went to leave why did he need to call them names? Isn't that bullying? Yes it is. I thought you were against bullying, I guess I was wrong but I'm right about this guy being a total Hypocrite.
Quote:
Originally Posted by doctrain
Of course it was bullying. There was an imbalance of power (adult-minors) and it included public embarrassment and repeated profanity.
The students were lured into the presentation under the assumption it was a "safe" arena for the discussion of anti-bullying; not to be mocked and publicly insulted as well as schooled on the speaker's crude interpretation of the Bible.
I don't want this man being part of the national anti-bullying campaign being touted by the administration and followed in our public schools.
I agree with the above well thought out posts and find Savage's comments to be not only characteristic of a bully, but also hate speech. He speaks of healing, but clearly he still has an embittered heart that has not forgiven.
I agree This post is actually well thought out and specific. yes, we know that Dan Savage is controversial and he speaks his mind. But, did the kids know this? But more importantly, did the school rep or authority figure willingly mislead the audience? Like I said in my previous post... I am all for freedom of speech. But, when someone manipulates the system and abuses their platform then I call BS. The gay community are the ones who want to create "hate crimes" and anti-bullying laws for non-violent speech that opposes homosexuality. Much of the bullying is verbal abuse, and not actual physical abuse. The comments that Savage said were exactly the type of stuff that the gays oppose. This is is similar to gangsta blacks who continue to use the N word, but threaten to kill or sue when someone else says the same thing. Freedom of speech is for all Americans. We don't need special hate laws for gays.
Since when are there special hate laws for anyone, let alone gay people? FYI, hate crime laws already exist, and they are not reserved for "special" groups... common misconception, but they apply to anyone who is attacked for their race, religion, gender, orientation, etc, no matter what you might be. Yes, even a white Christian male can be a victim of a hate crime, and the courts would convict his attacker if the evidence is strong enough. Why do people think these laws only apply to minorities?
P.S. Verbal abuse should not be tolerated any more than physical abuse, and gay students are targeted more than most (if not all) other students. That's why you hear about it more from them, as there are simply more gay-related incidents to report. Do you deny that?
Bullying is taking advantage of an imbalance in power to habitually use abusive, often physical, force to affect and coerce others. This incident isn't even close to bullying.
There was no imbalance of power: These students freely chose to attend this conference, they then freely chose to attend this particular speech, they had the power to challenge and speak out against Savage, and they were not a captive audience and could leave at any time. There was no habitual element to this whatsoever. There was no force used or attempt to coerce by Savage - he was arguing (admittedly crassly) in an attempt to persuade.
A crassly delivered message you, and many in attendance, disagree with - yes
Bullying - no
So what your saying is calling someone names is not bullying? and being there freely by your choice and not being captive in attendance means it is not bullying? so then you can't call it bullying if it's on a phone or the internet because it's only names and your free to turn either one off or leave the site. I agree with you in that case.
Btw, if you guys really think high schoolers don't regularly hear and/or use curse words, you're in serious denial. That doesn't mean I would freely use them around a teen, but stop acting like their precious virgin ears were tainted or something.
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This post is actually well thought out and specific. yes, we know that Dan Savage is controversial and he speaks his mind. But, did the kids know this? But more importantly, did the school rep or authority figure willingly mislead the audience? Like I said in my previous post... I am all for freedom of speech. But, when someone manipulates the system and abuses their platform then I call BS. The gay community are the ones who want to create "hate crimes" and anti-bullying laws for non-violent speech that opposes homosexuality. Much of the bullying is verbal abuse, and not actual physical abuse. The comments that Savage said were exactly the type of stuff that the gays oppose. This is is similar to gangsta blacks who continue to use the N word, but threaten to kill or sue when someone else says the same thing. Freedom of speech is for all Americans. We don't need special hate laws for gays. 
